Chinese submarines thread

[Roger604]

Re: Chinese sub thread

^ I think you're right.

The consensus is that the first Type 094 was launched in 2004. If other PLAN acquisitions are a model, probably two were launched within a short period of time. Many sources (including ONI) also say Type 094 has been in serial production since 2007. So we're probably looking at 3 subs by now.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Here is the original article

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资料图：中央电视台新闻中出现的战略核潜艇效果图

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btw, it was posted here,

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but for some reason I accessed it here from work this afternoon, but can't access it from home now.

Basically, didn't say much about it accept acknowledging its existence and listed its importance with KJ-2000 and J-10. From that, I think it's probably already achieved IOC.

As for the sub launching missile picture, there is a little more to it. The reason why it's said to be SAM is because on the CCTV program that showed this clip, it mentionned that the "air defense has improved" as the submarine was launching that missile. And the program was on conventional subs I think.

 

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Here is the original article

btw, it was posted here,

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but for some reason I accessed it here from work this afternoon, but can't access it from home now.

The link doesn't work for me neither, seems that they deleted it. BTW, it's the Water Resource Ministry page so somebody without knowing much may just post part of that internal document and it spreads all over the internet.

 

[crobato]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I had an impression it was probably one of those QW class MANPAD missiles being shot through one of the tubes in a Song's sail, which is mighty big for a small sub.

Addendum.

Looking at the sequence here, its a Song but I'm not sure if its a SAM. Like it was hitting a ship or something.

 

[evereachyu]

President Inspect The New Sub?

What do you think?

 

[evereachyu]

President Hu Inspects The New Sub?

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[Chengdu J-10]

Re: President Hu Inspects The New Sub?

A Song submarine, thought it was a Yuan submarine.

 

[sinowarrior]

Re: Chinese sub thread

^ Wow, an official government release saying that Type 094 as big a step for Chinese technology as J-10 and KJ-2000.

We know how advanced J-10 is -- it compares very well with the world's cutting edge fighters. This suggests PLAN is very happy with Type 094 and it probably compares very well with Ohio, Vanguard and Le Triomphant classes. The latter two uses pump jet, so there's a good chance Type 094 does too.

The priority for air force was J-10, army WZ123, second art DF-31 and Navy 094, both J-10 and WZ123 projects were modified quite extensively, especially if one looks at the difference between 98 and 99G, and since J-10 and 99G aren’t too far behind from their Western or Russian counterpart, it is possible that the entire 094 project is far advanced than most people have realized.
Also it was 094 rather than 093 that became the top priority of the navy at least from early 90s; this timeframe suggests the design on 094 was parallel with the 093 project, rather than a follow up based on the 093 project, since it is unlikely for the design of 093 to be finalized in early 90s. Therefore there is a possibility that 094 was designed independently like typhoon or Ohio rather than based on the design of 093, which suggest that the boomer program was far advanced then most of people believed.

Alternatively if 093 was indeed finalized during early 90s and the priority shifted to 094 after it and the old two-phase nuclear submarine development plan was followed, then the first 093 prototype could be launched as early as mid 90s, and like WZ123 J-10 even 039, a subsequent but radical redesign production model was introduced, and this explains the different 093 pictures that exist on the web. If this scenario is true, then the actual capability of 093 or 093G could be far superior to what most western analyst expected. Regardless it could be safe to conclude that PLA made some great leap in its nuclear subs technology just like in J-10 and WZ123’s case.

 

[fishhead]

Re: Chinese sub thread

From all the signs shown recently, my conclusion is that 094 SSBN is a done deal now. How many hulls deployed or will be deployed? We don't know, but I am pretty sure it is not like Xia - 092.

From the past interview with 092's chief designer, 092 is something for Chinese of "having or not having", it's used as the testbed and not much of practical combat meaning, since its missile leg is too short(not just noise). At the celebration of successful launch of JL-1 in 1987, the daughter of Marshall Nie(leader of the defence R&D) asked the chief what he thought, he replied: I worried "my job security". And his worry came true, Deng stopped the Chinese SSBN program, and that idle lasted almost 10 years until Jiang decided that Chinese SSBN program must continue(never stop again).

So 094 program started around middle of 1990, but we didn't see much Chinese break through in sub technology until around 2000, also nearly 10 years idle make SSBN program lose many valuable people(most of them went to the civilian nuclear program). Then I don't see how advance the 094 would be, the losing experience and too late of incoperating the new technology tell 094 is just so so. It only makes Chinese have real sea based nuclear strike capability but not much anything else. Its deployment number will not be many I think.

The real ace will come with 096 and I believe they're working on it, 094 is just the transition program.

 

[sinowarrior]

Re: Chinese sub thread

094 program started earlier than mid 90s, my granddad was working for COSTIND, with the daughter of Marshall Nie and her husband who was the head of COSTIND, and he said the program had been top priority for navy for a while, and he said that around mid 90s, also during that period, the sub school was actully in control of the navy, and quite a bit of navy founding was devoted to the boomers, whereas other project such 052B/C, song was not the top of the list. from what i have heard, i do not think most of nuke engineers went to civilan sectors at all. since the top priority means the entire program will be kept running at full speed even if other programs were cancalled or postponed, so DF-31 was kept alive whereas Df-41 was cancelled. it is also interesting to note J-10,WZ123,DF-31 all had its first prototype around 99, and entired batch production with radical modifications in the early 21 century.