Chinese submarines thread

[Lavi]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Cool down! I politeky asked a question and you starts yelling .

Okay, well I can honestly tell you that I am not capable of determining the amount of flow noise by looking at pictures of a submarine. The noise created by the movement of water around the hull is a difficult issue, which is why even an experienced company like Kockums might get it wrong sometimes.

Torpedoes are still the main weapon of choice for submarines, anti-ship missiles are a complement, not a substitute. In the field of torpedoes it operates the Mk-48, which has prooved itself to be a long-serving and reliable torpedo.

Also, it can lay minefields and operates the Sub-Harpoon.

A submarine usually trawels slowly, due to the fact that it is the only way to remain silent. The sound levels are very difficult to measure in a way that would make them comparable, due to a number of variables (streams, water temperature, speeds etc.), and when they are measured, they are highly classified secrets. Now, by obvious reasons I do not know any closer details about the propeller of the Collins and its strengths/weaknesses.

Also, the Collins operates a towed-array, which is something that greatly improves its capabilities, compared to e.g. Project 877 'Kilo'.

You are, however, quite rigth that designs can't simply be enlarged (although your 200% figure too large), which probably is the reason why Kockums haven't done so in this case.

 

[Mr_C]

Re: Chinese sub thread

TRY LOOK AT THE SUB THEN TALK!!!!:non o:

don you see ANY new subs built to that shape the Tall coning tower is a dead give away

the propeller arangement is poor for high speed (above 7 knots)

it lacks missiles for attack aginst surface ships making an attack sicuide aginst mordern asw forces

the main engine is a design converted for one used on a drilling plarform DO YOU WANT ME TO FLOOD THIS PAGE WITH ARTICALS ON ENGINE FALIURE!!!!!!!

YOU CAN SIMPLY ENLARGE A DESIGN BY 200% ANDS EXPECTED IT TO WORK

The sub (Collins) is still known for its engine problems, however the upgraded collins now do carry the sub launch version of the Harpoon but however it only has a range of about 30km.

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[darth sidious]

Re: Chinese sub thread

does anyone have photo of the 093 sub or any informational on it
it is possibl ethat its hull is made out of titanium ?? ( some rumor on CDF)

 

[KYli]

Re: Chinese sub thread

I think there is one very old photo of 93 posted in CDF long time ago, but even the people at CDF do not know it is real or fake.

 

[DPRKPTboat]

Re: Chinese sub thread

In my opinion, China is pretty much wastiing its money if it is still building the type 093. Even if it enters service tommorow, it will still be obsolete by western standards. I think China should try to get some advanced nuclear submarine technology from Russia, so it can build a more modern boat. If it can't do that, it should concentrate more on its diesel submarines, because those seem to be the cream of the Chinese submarine fleet at the moment. The Song and Kilo class submarines are the most advance in the PLAN. The nuclear subamrines are around 50 years old now. But I think it should also concentrate on it SSBN cpability, because thta is way far behind the west now.

 

[KYli]

Re: Chinese sub thread

In my opinion, China is pretty much wastiing its money if it is still building the type 093. Even if it enters service tommorow, it will still be obsolete by western standards. I think China should try to get some advanced nuclear submarine technology from Russia, so it can build a more modern boat. If it can't do that, it should concentrate more on its diesel submarines, because those seem to be the cream of the Chinese submarine fleet at the moment. The Song and Kilo class submarines are the most advance in the PLAN. The nuclear subamrines are around 50 years old now. But I think it should also concentrate on it SSBN cpability, because thta is way far behind the west now.

It is not waste of money. China will gain a lot of experience and expertise in making better subs later on. It may be obsolete by western standards, but there are only few nations of world could make nuclear subs. Russia refused to sell advanced nuclear subs technology to China, they only offer help for 93/94. The diesel subs have their limited, they can't stay underwater as long as nuclear subs can. Also diesel subs could not carry Nuclear missiles, so China do need to built 94. Nuclear subs are always bigger and more powerful than diesel subs could ever be, but they do have more noise problem.

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

It is not waste of money. China will gain a lot of experience and expertise in making better subs later on. It may be obsolete by western standards, but there are only few nations of world could make nuclear subs. Russia refused to sell advanced nuclear subs technology to China, they only offer help for 93/94. The diesel subs have their limited, they can't stay underwater as long as nuclear subs can. Also diesel subs could not carry Nuclear missiles, so China do need to built 94. Nuclear subs are always bigger and more powerful than diesel subs could ever be, but they do have more noise problem.

Actually no, the Russians would probably at least be able to lease akula to China as long as China pays for much of the building cost and such. But then, they would ask it back after a few years. Besides, the cost of a SSN is astronomical. If you can, it is much better to develop your own nuclear subs. In the past, they were saying that 094 could be quieter than the typhoon (the quietest of the Russians SSBNs?). 093's noise level is unknown at the moment. Many people have used Victor III as the measuring stick, but I think it is probably more capable due to the newer electronics on 093 and also the fact that China is importing a lot of components that the Russians use for their next generation SSNs.

 

[KYli]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Actually no, the Russians would probably at least be able to lease akula to China as long as China pays for much of the building cost and such. But then, they would ask it back after a few years. Besides, the cost of a SSN is astronomical. If you can, it is much better to develop your own nuclear subs. In the past, they were saying that 094 could be quieter than the typhoon (the quietest of the Russians SSBNs?). 093's noise level is unknown at the moment. Many people have used Victor III as the measuring stick, but I think it is probably more capable due to the newer electronics on 093 and also the fact that China is importing a lot of components that the Russians use for their next generation SSNs.

I only heard Russians would lease akula to India, and Russia refused to sell akula back in the 90. I don't know russians have ever offer to lease nuclear subs to china, but maybe I just missed that part of the news. Well, 093 probably will be quieter than Victor III, since victor IIIs are late 70 technology. Also Russia never are very good at electranics back then.

 

[Su-34]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Actually no, the Russians would probably at least be able to lease akula to China as long as China pays for much of the building cost and such. But then, they would ask it back after a few years. Besides, the cost of a SSN is astronomical. If you can, it is much better to develop your own nuclear subs. In the past, they were saying that 094 could be quieter than the typhoon (the quietest of the Russians SSBNs?). 093's noise level is unknown at the moment. Many people have used Victor III as the measuring stick, but I think it is probably more capable due to the newer electronics on 093 and also the fact that China is importing a lot of components that the Russians use for their next generation SSNs.

Tphuang, in my humble opinion, the Type 093 SSN might match the performance of US Navy's Improved Los Angeles class SSN, but still inferior to Virginia and Seawolf class. Next Chinese SSN, Type 095 SSN , which is still undergoing concept design, will be able to match Akula II and probably nearing the noise level of Seawolf. If current trend persist, China might be able to build the world's most silent SSN by 2020.:china:

 

[tphuang]

Re: Chinese sub thread

Tphuang, in my humble opinion, the Type 093 SSN might match the performance of US Navy's Improved Los Angeles class SSN, but still inferior to Virginia and Seawolf class. Next Chinese SSN, Type 095 SSN , which is still undergoing concept design, will be able to match Akula II and probably nearing the noise level of Seawolf. If current trend persist, China might be able to build the world's most silent SSN by 2020.:china:

Not a chance, the Americans are at least 2 generations (probably 3) ahead in SSN. 091 was just an experiment. 093 is at Akula I level if it's lucky. The Russian SSNs and SSGNs might match the noise level of improved LA class, but nothing the Russians have can match that. of course, there is also the militarization of the pebble stone reactor, but i don't know if that is actually done or not.