Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

azn_cyniq

Junior Member
Registered Member
Soft power comes from hard power, not the other way around. In order for a country's entertainment industry to become popular abroad, it must have a domestic market large enough to support it. The purchasing power of the Chinese middle class has increased drastically in recent years, and the quality of Chinese-language entertainment has gone up with it. Hard power is the foundation of soft power, otherwise the soft power is just a facade. China has spent decades amassing hard power, and its soft power is just starting to emerge. We just need to be a little more patient. Chinese dramas and music are not that popular abroad yet, but other Chinese "soft" products are. TikTok is a great example. Here in the US, politicians and news stations remind us every single day that TikTok is Chinese-owned. Every single day. That hasn't stopped 150 million Americans from using TikTok regularly. Isn't that a demonstration of soft power? I could say the same thing about Temu, Shein, and Genshin Impact. They are vilified on a daily basis for being Chinese, yet they are enduringly popular.

Korea has a lot of soft power, but I think tonyget seriously overestimates the impact of soft power. In the United States, some Korean dramas and songs become popular once in a while, but frankly they don't hold a candle to English-language entertainment. The vast majority of people in the world prefer to be entertained by people who either look like them or speak the same language as them. That's why Twice became popular in Japan by having multiple Japanese members. BTS became popular in Japan by releasing Japanese songs. Blackpink became popular in Southeast Asia by having a Southeast Asian member. The most popular Korean song in the United States right now is Cupid, and it is sung entirely in English. I can confidently say that the popularity of Korean culture here in the United States has little impact on our policies.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Don't have any expectations.
The current game approval system is garbage. The government still fantasizes that it can create a "politically safe" and excellent game in the market through strict censorship.

But we all know that's impossible.
What would be the ideal process in your opinion?
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
All the cultures in East Asia were influence by China yet somehow not considered soft power...? There are so many examples of things people say is soft power and then there's an example how it's not soft power when somebody else does it. Soft power is a scam by the West because at the core only the West gets to decide who has soft power and it's all about what they like or not like so they can watch people bend over backward trying to get them to like you. That's what I don't like about Asians. Their cultures are too ritualistic meaning they think if you this and you do that, you're suppose to get this. That's why China couldn't understand why they couldn't join the ISS when in their mind they can do all the basics that Western countries do in space. The US didn't allow China to be a member of the ISS because they wanted first all these economic and political concessions that had nothing to with space. The ritual is basically meaningless. That's what soft power is like and Asians so grab on to it like it's important when it's all about the West having power over you. Why does the West want everyone to embrace Western values? Because they control what is valued in their culture and if you want is valued you have do what they say in order to get what is valued. Sounds exactly how soft power works because they can decide to give it to you or not and what you do to get has nothing to do with what you want.

What has K-Pop given South Korea since it's being used as an example of soft power? Koreans are being attacked in anti-Asian violence in the US where perpetrators are saying how they don't like Koreans. It has nothing to do with a blanket generalization that all Asians are Chinese to them. Shouldn't soft power give that kind of protection since it's suppose to give Koreans a special kind of reverence? You look at the Oscar awards where one year South Koreans win best picture and then "Chinese" win this year for Everything Everywhere All at Once. Anyone notice the difference? Using K-Pop as an example of soft power is about South Koreans saying they're whiter than other Asians. For a people who think they're whiter than other Asians, they followed the typical Asian stereotypes of being stoic and having contained emotions. Everything Everywhere All at Once... Their American peers loved them for being outspoken, emotional, and off-the-cuff.

Why are Asians so susceptible to being sycophants? Why do Asians love being the teacher's pet? Everyone hates sycophants and teacher's pets. Why? Because there is a basic selfishness involved in being those things where they only care about being favored by an authority figure over everyone else. They want everyone else in a lesser position. They can be abused and not treated equally to the their authority but just as long as they're treated better than everyone else, it's okay. Why is it like this. I would have to say it's because Asian cultures find respecting authority most important to a fault. People in authority of course want blinding respect so no one ever questions them. And of course they will favor those that are most loyal over everyone else.

The reason why many Asians don't see soft power as the Western scam that it is because it's only value comes from thinking they are whiter than other Asians.
 

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
What would be the ideal process in your opinion?
There are currently no good ideas, but overly unclear standards and extremely limited quota approval systems are significant policy restrictions.
I'll put it bluntly, this is a policy with a strong patriarchal color, many of the things that the government, as a 'parent', does are purely a bureaucratic and habitual expansion of power.

It's really surprising, isn't it? In an era of market economy, cultural products are still planned economy style.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Oh,I see. Art illiteracy = strong mind. The people who never watch film/listen music/read novel must be strongest bunch in the world right?
Don't worry about art illiteracy; you need to worry about your actual illiteracy. My examples clearly pointed out how different people react to seeing the same thing and you mistook it to mean that some people don't see it while others do... illiteracy.
"Like" has no meaning,really? Why do you think big corporations,celebrities,public figures care so much about PR?After all they are rich and powerful,they are the one possess "hard power” in society. So why bother this "soft power" PR things if there is no meaning of being "liked" by the public?
Companies and celebrities need to be liked because the relationship that defines them is one of seller to patron. The major relationship that countries are defined by is one of partnership or rival. So your analogy is broken like your literacy. A more proper analogy would be boxers caring, or definitely NOT caring if their rival boxers in the ring "like" them. Or if we were to use your analogy, we can ask, do Burger King and MacDonald or Sams Club and Costco care if they like each other? Do Khabib and MacGregor care they they like each other?
The Mongol was all about hard power,and was able to beat everyone into submission. But I doubt that hard power earned them respect or admire.
You doubt wrong. It is impossible to not respect or admire Mongols or anyone in a society where they dominate over you. It doesn't mean that you don't have aspirations to overcome them, as people dream of besting their idols all the time, but strength demands respect.
The leader was influenced by the people, and the people was influenced by cool cartoons and dramas
LOLOL Only stupid people are influenced by "cool cartoons and dramas." Those people cannot even separate real life from fiction. Nobody listens to them. When they talk, strong-minded people tell them to shut up and sit down and they do it because they have no power to resist anything they see. "He just bossed me around! He's just like Senpai in the cartoon! Respect!" LOL Those people will never amount to anything in any country.
I don't see Japan or Korea "active interference" around the global,yet Japanese and Korean people are being liked in many countries. If it is not due to soft power then what is it?
By being cute cuddly little dogs to the Western order. China is a wolf that challenges Western domination. Japan and Korea submit to it. People like those that submit to them, not those who challenge them. How can this be difficult for you to understand?

But also, like I said, Japanese and Koreans have very good etiquette while Chinese are known to be poorly behaved on vacation, which is what the CCP wants to fix. Unfortunately, they used "soft power" and confused the less intelligent people.
"There is nothing more expensive than something free",ever heard of such proverb?
Proverbs don't mean anything if you cannot apply them correctly. A guy was handing out energy drinks from a new company; I took one, drank it, forgot what company it is, and never looked for it again. How expensive was that to me? Proverb broken. Use your own words to argue.
Again,what's the threshold of coercion or sanction?Are you going to sanction a country just because they don't like you or don't like your merchandise?I don't think so
If people aren't buying your merch because they suck, then you need to make better things. But again, if a country isn't buying your things because of market distortion on their side, then you put tariffs or non-tariff barriers to stop their things from being bought by your people. That is economic hard power. There is no "like", so that part is finished... again. Desperate begging salesmen trying "soft power" for unattractive products don't make sales; strong confident salesmen with a competitive product that the consumers need will make sales. All hard power.
No,it won't,the same way it won't deter all those Thai drama fans from visit Thailand.
Well, I was being sarcastic but since you crawled up into a hole I sarcastically asked if you would crawl into, then the conclusion would be that Chinese "soft power" is already far greater than any country's other than America's, which is fine because that is also the hard power ranking.
How many is "many" ? Prove it that plastic surgery people constitute the majority in Chinese tourists in Korea
It's literally a statistic you can Google if you want to but you missed the main point. The point is that you conflated visiting a country to worship, while in fact, it's actually just a thing that people with disposable income do. Chinese people visit Korea, Thailand, Japan, Vietnam, and Americans visit Canada, Mexico, Bahamas, etc... nobody in their right mind has any worship; it's just a vacation. I don't worship the hotels I stay at or the restaurants I eat at; but it seems to be a very difficult concept for sheep-mentality people.
If you have cancer you will likely die,but if you die does not necessarily mean you had cancer. The same logic applys to culture worship and oversea trip. If you worship Korean culture you will likely visit Korea,but you visit Korea does not necessarily mean you worship Korean culture. You said it yourself,you did not visit Korea because of culture worship.
Right... so you cannot point to tourism numbers in Korea to indicate Chinese worship because you cannot conflate tourism to worship. This is you kicking your own ass this time. And if you do conflate them, I will point out that China is the second most visited country in the world after the US. You have nowhere to go in an argument that China has poor "soft power."
China is the same. The number of foreign visitors is not an indicator of culture worship. I know nothing about African culture,but I'd like to visit Africa one day just to see the wild life.
LOL So which way do you want to play it? Tourism = worship meaning Chinese culture is worshipped or Tourism =/= worship, in which case your whole pont is moot? Or........ were you hoping to use a double standard and say that Chinese culture is not worshipped because toursim isn't worship but Korean culture is because there, tourism is worship? LOL

It's pretty bad that you didn't see this logical pit you dug yourself into while you were writing this...
 
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manqiangrexue

Brigadier
You are the one criticizing Chinese people,not me.
Of course; Chinese poor etiquette abroad and at home need to be criticized and addressed. Many Chinese people are criticizing this and the CCP is as well.
Unless you invade every country who doesn't recognize your hard power,otherwise it depends on your softpower
You have failed to even establish the existence of soft power. Instead, this just shows that you don't need people to like you; your hard power is all that matters. North Korea never recognized American hard power, "soft power," or anything. America didn't have to invade them (well, they couldn't cus the PLA stopped them with our hard power), but American because hegemon anyway because North Korea didn't ahve the hard power to matter. See? All hard power.
Speak for yourself. The Chinese people did not elect you as spoke person
LOLOL YOU spoke. You said nobody knows this better than Chinese people. I am Chinese; you are not. You did this to yourself again. I never claimed anything but just watched you kick your own ass again.
Your original sentence "So you're saying they don't have enough force AKA hard power yet". You are the one equal hard power to force
Force is a type of hard power but not the only type. Also, "force" doesn't mean military force. Economic force, technological force are all forces.
See the inflexibility of hard power?Either war or do nothing,only two polar extreme option.
No, not at all, but I do see your illiteracy again. There's sanctions, informal sanctions, arming the enemy's enemy, so many things hard power can do but "soft power" cannot.
See how explict the CCP says about this

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大力提升国家文化软实力 推动文博产业高质量发展​

中国取得历史性变革和成就的背后,文化是重要的精神力量。在错综复杂的国际环境中化解新矛盾、迎接新挑战、形成新优势,实现持续稳定长远发展,文化亦是重要软实力。文化软实力对内表现为深厚的文化自信,是铸就中华民族共同体意识的重要凝聚力;对外表现为跨文化感召力和吸引力,是展示大国形象与构建人类命运共同体的必要前提。党中央高度重视国家文化软实力建设。党的十九届五中全会提出到2035年建成社会主义文化强国的伟大目标;“十四五”规划中,发展社会主义先进文化、提升国家文化软实力得到了着重强调;中共中央办公厅、国务院办公厅今年8月印发的《“十四五”文化发展规划》要求,着力建设具有强大感召力和影响力的中华文化软实力。在迈向第二个百年奋斗目标的征程中,我们应始终坚定文化自信、增强文化自觉,着力提高中华文化对外感召力和影响力,不断铸就中华文化新辉煌,为建成社会主义文化强国奠定坚实基础。

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中共中央办公厅 国务院办公厅印发
《“十四五”文化发展规划》

应对世界百年未有之大变局和新冠肺炎疫情全球大流行交织影响,在错综复杂国际环境中化解新矛盾、迎接新挑战、形成新优势,文化是重要软实力,必须增强战略定力、讲好中国故事,为推动构建人类命运共同体提供持久而深厚的精神动力。
Once again:
1. Chinese people need better etiquette; it's embarassing. It's not soft power to be able to conduct oneself without actively drawing hatred from those who see you.
2. Chinese people indeed need a strong cultural identity to prevent them from losing themselves. Pride eminates from hard power. If you teach someone his history to instill pride, if the country is strong, it will work. If it is weak, the response will be to forget about it; all of it got us nowhere.
3. It is a facade that Chinese rise is non-threatening when in fact the real flank is from hard power in technology, economics and military. No one ever worries about you if you don't have those 3 pillars working for you.
4. You rely on others' arguments because you are continuously defeated yourself. It doesn't matter who says it, whether it be someone from the CCP, or the guy who coined the term "soft power" or Xi Jinping himself. The points I have raised invalidate "soft power" as any power at all and they remain standing until they are logically defeated, NOT because a famous person, who is not here to debate me, has an apparently different opinion. If they were here, I would debate them the same way and I see nothing to disprove my points. You cannot escape this by relying on others. This is a debate and you are the only one facing me.
Lack of imagination?Too bad
Lions don't imagine what it's like to be sheep. Why everything you watche instantly brain-washes you will forever remain a mystery to the intelligent.
I okay with criticism,are you?
Only if it makes sense, which is a far ways off for you.
Ever seen short ugly guys with no money manage to score pretty girls?That's soft power on individual level,don't be shocked when you see it.
That's called money and power, none of which are soft. Don't be confused all the time. You can find Youtube clips of women together with guys who suffer extreme genetic disorders confusing everyone but exceptions don't break the common rule that generally, people find their mates who are of equal hard value (comprised by a combination of physical excellence, intellect, money, power, inherited power, etc...) to themselves. Every exception you find, I can point out 1,000 normal cases.
If that's your belief ,fine,suit yourself. I do not argue with religious people about their faith because it's pointless.
My faith is logic and it's clearly pointless for you to argue against it.
Enjoy yourself
I am. Keep providing the soft targets. Would like it if you can improve your skills but everyone has his limits.
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Soft power comes from hard power, not the other way around. In order for a country's entertainment industry to become popular abroad, it must have a domestic market large enough to support it. The purchasing power of the Chinese middle class has increased drastically in recent years, and the quality of Chinese-language entertainment has gone up with it. Hard power is the foundation of soft power, otherwise the soft power is just a facade. China has spent decades amassing hard power, and its soft power is just starting to emerge. We just need to be a little more patient. Chinese dramas and music are not that popular abroad yet, but other Chinese "soft" products are. TikTok is a great example. Here in the US, politicians and news stations remind us every single day that TikTok is Chinese-owned. Every single day. That hasn't stopped 150 million Americans from using TikTok regularly. Isn't that a demonstration of soft power? I could say the same thing about Temu, Shein, and Genshin Impact. They are vilified on a daily basis for being Chinese, yet they are enduringly popular.

Korea has a lot of soft power, but I think tonyget seriously overestimates the impact of soft power. In the United States, some Korean dramas and songs become popular once in a while, but frankly they don't hold a candle to English-language entertainment. The vast majority of people in the world prefer to be entertained by people who either look like them or speak the same language as them. That's why Twice became popular in Japan by having multiple Japanese members. BTS became popular in Japan by releasing Japanese songs. Blackpink became popular in Southeast Asia by having a Southeast Asian member. The most popular Korean song in the United States right now is Cupid, and it is sung entirely in English. I can confidently say that the popularity of Korean culture here in the United States has little impact on our policies.
+1. I would like to distinguish between soft power and entertainment.

Soft power is power - it can be used to affect physical change. Stuff like news, education, religion, nationalism and ideology. This is 100% real and proven in history ranging from the Pope to French Revolution to Marx.

Catholicism and Islam could raise crusades. Nationalism changed history with Napoleon raising the levee en masse to conscript a huge % of French men without destabilizing society. People fought and won wars in impossible conditions for Marxism when just a few years earlier under other ideologies they failed. It would be stupid to deny the influence of these ideas, as hard power alone cannot explain why for instance CPC defeated KMT, PAVN defeated ARVN.

Entertainment on the other hand, isn't real soft power. The conflation of entertainment with soft power is actually very insidious. It turns the question of, "can your ideology attract hardcore followers that will bleed for it", to "how much do people like your movies and music". And that is a very different question.

Simple question: who has more soft power, BTS or Marx? If you say BTS then I ask, how many divisions were raised in the name of BTS vs Marx? How many monuments to BTS were built? How much money is spent by Marxists vs BTS Army?

What about Japanese anime vs Islam?

There's a reason why they will never ask if Iran or Saudi Arabia have soft power. Iran and Saudi have shit movies, games, TV, etc. All the good Middle Eastern TV is Egyptian, Jordanian and Turkish.

Yet why doesn't anyonr dare say that Iranian or Saudi soft power is 0? They know the answer and they don't want to bring attention to the fact that soft power isn't movies or entertainment.
 

xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
+1. I would like to distinguish between soft power and entertainment.

Soft power is power - it can be used to affect physical change. Stuff like news, education, religion, nationalism and ideology. This is 100% real and proven in history ranging from the Pope to French Revolution to Marx.

Catholicism and Islam could raise crusades. Nationalism changed history with Napoleon raising the levee en masse to conscript a huge % of French men without destabilizing society. People fought and won wars in impossible conditions for Marxism when just a few years earlier under other ideologies they failed. It would be stupid to deny the influence of these ideas, as hard power alone cannot explain why for instance CPC defeated KMT, PAVN defeated ARVN.

Entertainment on the other hand, isn't real soft power. The conflation of entertainment with soft power is actually very insidious. It turns the question of, "can your ideology attract hardcore followers that will bleed for it", to "how much do people like your movies and music". And that is a very different question.

Simple question: who has more soft power, BTS or Marx? If you say BTS then I ask, how many divisions were raised in the name of BTS vs Marx? How many monuments to BTS were built? How much money is spent by Marxists vs BTS Army?

What about Japanese anime vs Islam?

There's a reason why they will never ask if Iran or Saudi Arabia have soft power. Iran and Saudi have shit movies, games, TV, etc. All the good Middle Eastern TV is Egyptian, Jordanian and Turkish.

Yet why doesn't anyonr dare say that Iranian or Saudi soft power is 0? They know the answer and they don't want to bring attention to the fact that soft power isn't movies or entertainment.
You are correct about soft power not being restricted to entertainment only but the latter is also soft power. Entertainment and media industries act as a medium to propagate your culture, ideology, religion, etc. and when used correctly, they can become force multipliers for them. Soft power likewise can also serve to make additional economic gains - your brands will be selling the same things for more because they are considered prestigious (basically most of European companies), tourism money (see Paris syndrome), etc.

Why there are so many people ready to pay thousands of dollars to get a GUCCI or whatever bag despite its real cost being probably 1/100th of that? Because they've been conditioned to believe that owning it will make them more prestigious and elite by the media and smart marketing by the companies. When you observe them in a vacuum, then you'll be hard pressed to find any reason why that thing costs so much. I often see hideous items selling for thousands just because it got brand name plastered all over it.

Why there're so many people shilling for the liberal democracy all over the world, even in countries where it did more harm than good? Because it is extensively promoted through the Western entertainment and media both subtly and directly. You will have a hard time finding mainstream movie or news corporation criticizing liberal democracy and even if they do, they'll always say something like "despite all the minuses, it still the best form of government we currently have". They won't mention that the development of Western countries did not happen because of liberal democracy but because of other less fancy things like genocide, colonialism, thievery, slavery, etc.

Why white people are given red carpet treatment in many Asian countries, even including China (although that thankfully seems to be changing)? Not only wealth because it is not restricted to poor countries and white people from countries that are poorer benefit from them being promoted as beautiful, kind, etc. in the Western media, while the reality is closer to this -
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. Even countries like Baltic chihuahuas benefit from that by adjacency. So I think in that regard South Koreans are doing a good job unlike the Japanese who exported mostly animated mediums and even there many of the characters are either ethnically ambiguous or straight up white, which is why I don't consider anime as a significant soft power medium contrary to K-Pop.

You cannot, however, replace hard power with soft power so China has been correctly focusing on the former first.
 
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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
You are correct about soft power not being restricted to entertainment only but the latter is also soft power. Entertainment and media industries act as a medium to propagate your culture, ideology, religion, etc. and when used correctly, they can become force multipliers for them. Soft power likewise can also serve to make additional economic gains - your brands will be selling the same things for more because they are considered prestigious (basically most of European companies), tourism money (see Paris syndrome), etc.

Why there are so many people ready to pay thousands of dollars to get a GUCCI or whatever bag despite its real cost being probably 1/100th of that? Because they've been conditioned to believe that owning it will make them more prestigious and elite by the media and smart marketing by the companies. When you observe them in a vacuum, then you'll be hard pressed to find any reason why that thing costs so much. I often see hideous items selling for thousands just because it got brand name plastered all over it.

Why there're so many people shilling for the liberal democracy all over the world, even in countries where it did more harm than good? Because it is extensively promoted through the Western entertainment and media both subtly and directly. You will have a hard time finding mainstream movie or news corporation criticizing liberal democracy and even if they do, they'll always say something like "despite all the minuses, it still the best form of government we currently have". They won't mention that the development of Western countries did not happen because of liberal democracy but because of other less fancy things like genocide, colonialism, thievery, slavery, etc.

Why white people are given red carpet treatment in many Asian countries, even including China (although that thankfully seems to be changing)? Not only wealth because it is not restricted to poor countries and white people from countries that are poorer benefit from the being promoted as beautiful, kind, etc. in the Western media, while the reality is closer to this -
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. Even countries like Baltic chihuahuas benefit from that by adjacency. So I think in that regard South Koreans are doing a good job unlike the Japanese who exported mostly animated mediums and even there many of the characters are either ethnically ambiguous or straight up white, which is why I don't consider anime as a significant soft power medium contrary to K-Pop.

You cannot, however, replace hard power with soft power so China has been correctly focusing on the former first.
One interesting thing about luxury goods: France and Italy have very weak entertainment sectors. Even after banning English language media to some degree, they still can't escape the gravity of US entertainment . Top box office in France and Italy is all Hollywood.

So I'd say that French and Italian luxury products don't represent their own soft power at all. They get Hollywood and news agencies advertising for them. It's a concession by US for them, not anything they did on their own. If CNN started demonizing LV and Prada as ripoffs made by enslaved Africans, could France or Italy keep them alive? No. They'd be crushed.
 

xypher

Senior Member
Registered Member
One interesting thing about luxury goods: France and Italy have very weak entertainment sectors. Even after banning English language media to some degree, they still can't escape the gravity of US entertainment . Top box office in France and Italy is all Hollywood.

So I'd say that French and Italian luxury products don't represent their own soft power at all. They get Hollywood and news agencies advertising for them. It's a concession by US for them, not anything they did on their own. If CNN started demonizing LV and Prada as ripoffs made by enslaved Africans, could France or Italy keep them alive? No. They'd be crushed.
I would say that they are allowed to exploit the US soft power to push their stuff. With time, however, those brands have grown into their own soft power where Italian and French products are inherently considered "high class". I have seen this in Russia a lot - many domestic brands try to mimic French\Italian\German brands (depending on the sector) by using names that might make the customer think that they are from these countries (e.g. Bork). In a clash against the country with superior soft power like the US, they of course would lose but I don't think it would happen in an instant. Perception often takes a long time to change.
 
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