Chinese Soft Power and Media Discussion and Updates

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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overbom said:
These soft power arguments come and go all the time in the forum. And everytime we have to waste valuable time and braincells dismantling their arguments.

Argue with them, and next week you will still have the exact same discussion
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Soft power in the sense of "entertainment power" mainly appeals to urban people between 15-30 years of age, who have developed a sense of self-identity so they care about nationalism, but who don't yet care or understand enough about the dynamics of global power to appreciate the difference between dancing boys and girls vs. ideological and cultural control.

I know, because I used to be one of these people in my early twenties. I used to care about "entertainment nationalism," where I'd take great pride in the successes of Chinese entertainment, and be shamed by its failures. I also worked among Koreans who were really, really into this **** and who thought K pop being popular meant Koreans were dominating the world.

The common denominator in all this is actually very simple - because young urban people socialize mainly by talking about popular entertainment with their friends, it's all they end up caring about. Their entire world is wrapped up in trivial matters like celebrity gossip, drama fantasies, video games, anime and music. So to them, this is "power" because it's all they're interested in.

But just wait until they get older. When all the conversations shift to business, politics, and family. They'll realize pretty quickly just how trivial their entertainment obsessions actually were. Especially among men, entertainment loses its hold around 35 and it just gets worse from there. With women the obsession can last a lot longer, especially if she's single, but women don't usually hang around talking about "soft power" on military forums.

So I think what we're witnessing here is basically an age or generation divide. I'd be very surprised if the people obsessed with "entertainment power" will remain so in another ten years.
 
manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
TK3600 said:
Conning people's mind is not hard power. It has nothing to do with having money and a big stick. Influencing people's opinion matter.
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You have repeatedly demonstrated that you do not understand the difference between hard and soft power. The most striking incident was when you implied that spying for information is considered soft power while spying for assassination was hard power. No. There is nothing more powerful than the mind in modern warfare; we do not live in the time of the Spartans. To defeat your opponent at all, whether it be through cunning or physical force, are all considered hard power. All warfare is based on deception - Sun Tzu. To deceive one into fearing you and submitting is hard power of the mind. The imaginary concept of soft power would be if, from a platform of lesser hard power, your media and entertainment caused you to be so loved that nations with greater hard power yielded their interests to your wishes or when they didn't, their citizens forced them to for love of your culture. There is no example of this in human history.
TK3600 said:
That is why China put some effort there. You don't like that do not mean every country including China think the same.
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What efforts? Telling citizens to act decently in public while banning addicting games and sending out wolf warriors to scold foreign politicians? LOL Compared to China's efforts in hard power, it is obvious that the type of power that was originally intended by the "soft power" label, the type that @tonyget thinks it is, and the type that you are constantly confused about, is not a priority of the CCP. Too bad they aren't more clear about this but perhaps they do this on purpose to confuse Westerners about their intent. Too bad some Chinese people may become confused and thus collateral damage.
 
Z

zhangjim

Junior Member
Registered Member
FairAndUnbiased said:
there's plenty of non-political games though. is Minecraft or Fappy Bird particularly political? What about Dyson Sphere Project?
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Minecraft not a good example. Due to policy constraints, these games must be operated by domestic agents.You don't think it's a good idea to have players pay for MODs, do you?
NetEase's shameless profit model is entirely based on policy restrictions on players.

The recent refund incident for Resident Evil 4 is also very ironic.
That was many years ago, when the government banned the game 'Resident Evil'. It is ridiculous that the sales of the legitimate version of Resident Evil 3 reached 300000 copies in that era of rampant piracy.
In other words, because of the genius order of our great government, they personally strangled the market of legitimate games.
 
T

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
@tonyget I think I've found a major point of difference in how we perceive things and that is why I initially could not at all understand why you are jumping up and down about cultural worship and fake soft power just because Chinese people watch Thai/Korean shows and visit Thailand/Korea. You have a beta mentality that makes you become your surroundings wherever you go while most people including myself have an alpha mentality where our identities are actually unthreatened by anything we experience. When you visit a place, you view yourself as some truth-seeking pilgrim humbly walking through a superior land of wisdom. When, I visit a place, I do it like an American visits Mexico, which is exactly how Chinese people view our trips to Southeast Asia. I have been to many countries and watched TV shows from all over the world and never have I ever once felt admiration or worship towards anything than my own country and culture. My mother used to watch Korean Dramas every night and she was so far from worshipping Korean culture that when I got a Korean girlfriend, she told me I'm too good for any Korean; I must marry and date Chinese. That's why in my world, I just could not connect why you thought watching dramas and tourism translate into worship when they are just normal things that people with spare income do. Now I realize that it's because our minds are totally wired in different ways so that the same thing can have vastly different effects on different people. For example:

Watch an anime
Mentally weak people: Wowww, Japan is so cool! I'd love to go there and experience such a majestic culture! The art is so beautiful and the people are so kind! It'd be an honor to be amongst them!
Mentally strong people: Eh, that was a fun story.

Watch a K-drama
Mentally weak people: Oh my gosh, Koreans are so cool! Korean culture is so exciting and dramatic! I wish I could experience dynamic Korea! I want to listen to more Korean music and get emersed in Korean things! I think I'll go buy so K-Pop posters and put them in my room and dress like a Korean!
Mentally strong people: LOLOL Look at those nutjobs crying and screaming over regular shit. Hilarious. Funny people; I like.

Visit Thailand
Mentally weak people: Suwatika! The place is gorgeous with all the gold and the lively street culture! Even if I get kidnapped, it's worth it just to be here humbled by its beauty! I wish I were Thai!
Mentally strong people: That was very good seafood. Now then, I sure as hell didn't come all the way out here to take a pic with an elephant so... let's get to business! Remember! No matter how good they look, don't forget to check for the adam's apple!

In China, there will be strong-minded and weak-minded people. The latter won't make a difference anyway because they don't have the determination to build hard power.
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The first line of all three examples actually perfectly describes most white tourists
 
L

luminary

Senior Member
Registered Member
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Respondents still cite Jackie Chan (who is not even American) and the late Bruce Lee as the most prominent Asian Americans.
  • Kamala Harris, the nation's first Asian American vice president, replaced Lucy Liu as the third most popular name this year.
  • "The question we ask ourselves is, 'Who's going be the first Asian American to replace Jackie Chan as the most famous, most prominent Asian American in America?'" said Chen.

It's kinda hilarious to hear so much attention around Kamal Harris being asian.
Of course, nobody can replace Jackie.
 
T

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
Watch an anime
Mentally weak people: Wowww, Japan is so cool! I'd love to go there and experience such a majestic culture! The art is so beautiful and the people are so kind! It'd be an honor to be amongst them!
Mentally strong people: Eh, that was a fun story.

Watch a K-drama
Mentally weak people: Oh my gosh, Koreans are so cool! Korean culture is so exciting and dramatic! I wish I could experience dynamic Korea! I want to listen to more Korean music and get emersed in Korean things! I think I'll go buy so K-Pop posters and put them in my room and dress like a Korean!
Mentally strong people: LOLOL Look at those nutjobs crying and screaming over regular shit. Hilarious. Funny people; I like.

Visit Thailand
Mentally weak people: Suwatika! The place is gorgeous with all the gold and the lively street culture! Even if I get kidnapped, it's worth it just to be here humbled by its beauty! I wish I were Thai!
Mentally strong people: That was very good seafood. Now then, I sure as hell didn't come all the way out here to take a pic with an elephant so... let's get to business! Remember! No matter how good they look, don't forget to check for the adam's apple!

In China, there will be strong-minded and weak-minded people. The latter won't make a difference anyway because they don't have the determination to build hard power.
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Oh，I see. Art illiteracy = strong mind. The people who never watch film/listen music/read novel must be strongest bunch in the world right？
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
manqiangrexue said:
@tonyget I think I've found a major point of difference in how we perceive things and that is why I initially could not at all understand why you are jumping up and down about cultural worship and fake soft power just because Chinese people watch Thai/Korean shows and visit Thailand/Korea. You have a beta mentality that makes you become your surroundings wherever you go while most people including myself have an alpha mentality where our identities are actually unthreatened by anything we experience. When you visit a place, you view yourself as some truth-seeking pilgrim humbly walking through a superior land of wisdom. When, I visit a place, I do it like an American visits Mexico, which is exactly how Chinese people view our trips to Southeast Asia. I have been to many countries and watched TV shows from all over the world and never have I ever once felt admiration or worship towards anything than my own country and culture. My mother used to watch Korean Dramas every night and she was so far from worshipping Korean culture that when I got a Korean girlfriend, she told me I'm too good for any Korean; I must marry and date Chinese. That's why in my world, I just could not connect why you thought watching dramas and tourism translate into worship when they are just normal things that people with spare income do. Now I realize that it's because our minds are totally wired in different ways so that the same thing can have vastly different effects on different people. For example:

Watch an anime
Mentally weak people: Wowww, Japan is so cool! I'd love to go there and experience such a majestic culture! The art is so beautiful and the people are so kind! It'd be an honor to be amongst them!
Mentally strong people: Eh, that was a fun story.

Watch a K-drama
Mentally weak people: Oh my gosh, Koreans are so cool! Korean culture is so exciting and dramatic! I wish I could experience dynamic Korea! I want to listen to more Korean music and get emersed in Korean things! I think I'll go buy so K-Pop posters and put them in my room and dress like a Korean!
Mentally strong people: LOLOL Look at those nutjobs crying and screaming over regular shit. Hilarious. Funny people; I like.

Visit Thailand
Mentally weak people: Suwatika! The place is gorgeous with all the gold and the lively street culture! Even if I get kidnapped, it's worth it just to be here humbled by its beauty! I wish I were Thai!
Mentally strong people: That was very good seafood. Now then, I sure as hell didn't come all the way out here to take a pic with an elephant so... let's get to business! Remember! No matter how good they look, don't forget to check for the adam's apple!

In China, there will be strong-minded and weak-minded people. The latter won't make a difference anyway because they don't have the determination to build hard power.
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What China really needs are more young people with Sigma mentality. Who gives a damn about what others think of you? The only thing that matters is self improvement.
 
T

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
I seriously can't tell if you're actually this simple-minded or if you're just trying to not lose an argument by delaying the inevitable.

1. "Like" has no meaning. It's something that weak people keep saying because they need to feel safe and fear conflict. It's whether or not another country aligns itself with you and bends to your will that is important.

2. No, you don't nuke them. Are you unaware of all of the things that can be done before a nuclear escalation? Economic sanctions, tech embargo, arming the enemies and rivals of the nation, starting territorial disputes (if applicable) with them or joining their neighbors in territorial disputes against them, getting them left behind in development because you support the economy of all the countries around them but not them. This is the real world, not some brain-dead "What can you do? Nuke?"
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"Like" has no meaning，really？ Why do you think big corporations，celebrities，public figures care so much about PR？After all they are rich and powerful，they are the one possess "hard power” in society. So why bother this "soft power" PR things if there is no meaning of being "liked" by the public?
manqiangrexue said:
I can see it. China is and will be more respected and admired because other countries see this nation defeating the US and becoming the most powerful nation of the future and they want to be aligned with the winner. NOT by making drama/tourism/please like me attempts.
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The Mongol was all about hard power，and was able to beat everyone into submission. But I doubt that hard power earned them respect or admire.
manqiangrexue said:
Yes, and this usually is influenced by the management of the country, NOT because the leader was too mean to a country that produces really cool cartoons and dramas so all their fans got mad at him. That has literally never happened or come close to happening in the history of mankind.
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The leader was influenced by the people, and the people was influenced by cool cartoons and dramas
manqiangrexue said:
Sometimes it is and sometimes not. When it isn't, it is usually due to active interference by a country with greater hard power. In the natural order, the strongest country is the most respected and the second country is commands secondary respect. But not if the strongest country makes it a point that respecting the rival is disrespecting him. Thus, hard power determines everything again.
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I don't see Japan or Korea "active interference" around the global，yet Japanese and Korean people are being liked in many countries. If it is not due to soft power then what is it？
manqiangrexue said:
Look at you getting your panties in a bunch over people watching some free TV LOL. Everybody watches TV from everybody else, but when interests clash, nobody cares what entertainment you make; they will use hard power to get their goals reached before yours.
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"There is nothing more expensive than something free"，ever heard of such proverb？
manqiangrexue said:
No. That was just one example, which should be obvious to everyone with a normal IQ. Economic coercion, technological sanction, political attack, all those happen before military escalation. This is how mighty countries impose their interests in all of human history.
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Again，what's the threshold of coercion or sanction？Are you going to sanction a country just because they don't like you or don't like your merchandise？I don't think so
manqiangrexue said:
By your logic, the risk of getting commie-brainwashed and abducted by the secret police won't deter all those China fans from visiting China every year, the second most-visited country in the world after the US.
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No，it won't，the same way it won't deter all those Thai drama fans from visit Thailand.
manqiangrexue said:
What a stupid question. Many Chinese people visit Korea just for the plastic surgery. I'm saying to you that in the real world, I had no such experience as your imaginary one where I was treated badly in Korea for being Chinese. And in the real world, Chinese tourism is second only to the US. So every time you make up little stories about Chinese people touring a small country, it's just a moot point. Big data says China dominates the countries with less hard power again.
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How many is "many" ? Prove it that plastic surgery people constitute the majority in Chinese tourists in Korea
manqiangrexue said:
Of what? Your online foreign web trolling vs my real life experience? LOL My mom watches K-drama and so does my wife. They don't give a hoot about Korea and would never side with it in any conflict with China. Thanks for the free flicks, tourism is transactional, but when it comes down to it, we're Chinese and it's stupid to think otherwise. I don't understand why you think if someone watches a TV show or visits a place, they worship it, rather than patronizing it as an equal transaction or even looking at the place as a place of service to them, the customer. It's wrong, but if this is your definition, then China is worshipped secondly to the US by tourist numbers and our hard power is second to the US, so it supports my point, not yours. I might think something is cool and fun but if they offend China, I'm dropping all my support towards them like a rock.
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If you have cancer you will likely die，but if you die does not necessarily mean you had cancer. The same logic applys to culture worship and oversea trip. If you worship Korean culture you will likely visit Korea，but you visit Korea does not necessarily mean you worship Korean culture. You said it yourself，you did not visit Korea because of culture worship.

China is the same. The number of foreign visitors is not an indicator of culture worship. I know nothing about African culture，but I'd like to visit Africa one day just to see the wild life.
manqiangrexue said:
China was getting embarassed because of Chinese tourists spitting in public, skipping lines, climbing statues, sleeping in the hotel lobby picking thier feet, etc... This embarassment needs to stop. After that, it's all hard power.
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You are the one criticizing Chinese people，not me.
manqiangrexue said:
It changes based on your hard power.
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Unless you invade every country who doesn't recognize your hard power，otherwise it depends on your softpower
manqiangrexue said:
It doesn't? LOLOL So American active suppression with its hard power cannot influence how other treat American rivals? You sure?

I'm Chinese and you're not. Thanks for capitulating again.
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Speak for yourself. The Chinese people did not elect you as spoke person
manqiangrexue said:
Force isn't the only hard power, once again, for the extremely slow-minded. Economic sanctions, political/tech war are all hard power. You don't have to strike a country with your military if you can make them spend the next few decades watching themselves get left back and turned into the retard of the region because everyone else can trade with you but they can't.
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Your original sentence "So you're saying they don't have enough force AKA hard power yet". You are the one equal hard power to force
manqiangrexue said:
Correct. War is declared for conflicting interests, something soft "power" can never solve. It is not declared because some crybabies want to be liked but were not liked.
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See the inflexibility of hard power？Either war or do nothing，only two polar extreme option.
manqiangrexue said:
I know the hard power drive is happening for a while. I know they banned certain gaming for a while. What do you think is happening? Post some links. Your debate skill is too bad.
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manqiangrexue said:
No, you post whatever you think it is and we'll take it from there. I'm not searching for anything.
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See how explict the CCP says about this

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大力提升国家文化软实力 推动文博产业高质量发展​


中国取得历史性变革和成就的背后，文化是重要的精神力量。在错综复杂的国际环境中化解新矛盾、迎接新挑战、形成新优势，实现持续稳定长远发展，文化亦是重要软实力。文化软实力对内表现为深厚的文化自信，是铸就中华民族共同体意识的重要凝聚力；对外表现为跨文化感召力和吸引力，是展示大国形象与构建人类命运共同体的必要前提。党中央高度重视国家文化软实力建设。党的十九届五中全会提出到2035年建成社会主义文化强国的伟大目标；“十四五”规划中，发展社会主义先进文化、提升国家文化软实力得到了着重强调；中共中央办公厅、国务院办公厅今年8月印发的《“十四五”文化发展规划》要求，着力建设具有强大感召力和影响力的中华文化软实力。在迈向第二个百年奋斗目标的征程中，我们应始终坚定文化自信、增强文化自觉，着力提高中华文化对外感召力和影响力，不断铸就中华文化新辉煌，为建成社会主义文化强国奠定坚实基础。

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中共中央办公厅 国务院办公厅印发
《“十四五”文化发展规划》
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应对世界百年未有之大变局和新冠肺炎疫情全球大流行交织影响，在错综复杂国际环境中化解新矛盾、迎接新挑战、形成新优势，文化是重要软实力，必须增强战略定力、讲好中国故事，为推动构建人类命运共同体提供持久而深厚的精神动力。
 
T

tonyget

Senior Member
Registered Member
manqiangrexue said:
I couldn't help it because it's hard to imagine an adult functioning at this mental level. My points are solid because they logically defeat yours, not for any personal reason.
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Lack of imagination？Too bad
manqiangrexue said:
Hey, I'm just pointing out how ironic it is that you wanted to say something about someone else but it was a perfect criticism of yourself!
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I okay with criticism，are you？
manqiangrexue said:
Lots of things will be shocking in this world to someone who thinks that the false concept of "soft power" is only way to achieve anything.
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Ever seen short ugly guys with no money manage to score pretty girls？That's soft power on individual level，don't be shocked when you see it.
manqiangrexue said:
The exception is not that they never hit setbacks but that they accomplish basically all of their goals once the CCP sets its power to it. If I had to pick one mistake now, I'd say it's that they didn't clarify enough on the meaning when they use "soft power" so it's bringing much confusion to the less mentally-adept people.
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If that's your belief ，fine，suit yourself. I do not argue with religious people about their faith because it's pointless.
manqiangrexue said:
Yes, I'm famous here for debating trolls to death. You just found that out?
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Enjoy yourself
 
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