Chinese shipbuilding industry
- Thread starter tphuang
- Start date
Not that hard. The Soviet shipbuilding capacity was cut in half, and in practical terms it was reduced even further due to component factories scattered about the former Union (torpedoes for instance are designed in Ukraine and built in Belarus and Kyrgyzstan, and I am not even going into materials and components), and then had to endure practically no work and less maintenance for 10 years, if the Americans were contracted to destroy Soviet naval research and production capacity they couldn't have done a much better job.
The way I see it, the Chinese naval complex is only behind that of the Russian one in the following ares:
1) Submarines
2) Naval aviation (not so much fixed wing but helicopters)
3) Engines (catching up fast but not quite there yet, the Russians still have an edge in gear box, transmission, integrated propulsion systems, gas turbines and certainly nuclear reactors)
4) Weapons (I kinda agree with you, but honestly that is a mixed area, where China has surpassed Russia in some areas - I refer to the latest VLS and SAM, while Russia retains an edge in heavy torpedoes and long range AShMs)
Does Russia still retain advantage in long range AShMs? You really can't just go by range, because USSR already have the 500km+ P-700 in the 1980s, but that missile is as big as Mig-21 and can be only fitted on their largest cruisers. And their Brahmos is not that much of a improvement on this.
China already have Yj-12 with 400+ km range and it is a much smaller missile which can be carried on strike aircraft.
And the closest thing I see from Russia is Kh-35 which does not even come close to YJ-12's spec.
China already have Yj-12 with 400+ km range and it is a much smaller missile which can be carried on strike aircraft.
And the closest thing I see from Russia is Kh-35 which does not even come close to YJ-12's spec.
It seems that the Chinese is not interested in producing Brahmos type of missile rather than not having the abilities to develop one.
They are going the USN ways of saturation attack using supersonic(1 mach) , low flying long range cruise missiles.
The only thing we know about the YJ-12 is that it exists, it was mentioned in Baguwen.
What you read about it on wiki or fora is baseless speculation, we aren't even sure if it's supersonic or subsonic, or terminal supersonic. Hell, we aren't even sure if it's developed first as an ASM or a AShM. I'd really like to see where you pull the 400km figure out of.
And you can be sure that Russia's AShM missile complexes have a significant technical edge, they were doing staged-ramjets and working on scramjets and data-networking and pop-ups and so on decades before China did - although you can quite plausibly argue that super-long range supersonic missiles is itself a dead end and that China did right to pursue the YJ-62/83 path.
There is a few sources on Jane
Where it cited the missile has been spotted many times on Chinese aircraft.
As for Russian missile complex are ahead, you can say the same for everything else for Russia... 20 years ago, the whole point of this discussion is saying that China is moving ahead, and they have indeed officially received Kh-31 in 1997, but chances are they have receive the technology much earlier than that, so it gives them plenty of time to work on it.
And lastly, Kh-31 is the last ramjet missile of smaller size being produced in USSR/Russia, they have not come up with another new ramjet missile since that. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.
Unfortunately Janes seems to be the only reputable source for this mysterious YJ-12, and any other mentions of it seem to be clones of the janes article.
Personally the lack of photos of such a missile -- even no reputable drawings or CGI -- after all these years make me think it may have been shelved or cancelled a while ago. I personally think a light-medium weight supersonic SSM should be developed, but something like brahmos and granit aren't the way to go. Rather, japan's SSM-3, and the proposed perseus missile are both better examples. Not as massive as the russian missiles, stealthy, and with both active radar and EO guidance.
As to the Russians -- well technically the brahmos fits your requirements, although it can be argued to only be a development of the yakhont. They're certainly ahead in the large supersonic anti ship missile race, but at the moment I don't think china's even competing in it.
the PLA seems to be focusing on a mass of much lighter, subsonic anti ship missiles like YJ-82 and the longer ranged YJ-62. However the AShM industry seems to be diverging into two directions now -- subsonic, stealthy, long range, and supersonic, stealthy, and shorter range. The PLA should invest in both.
Personally the lack of photos of such a missile -- even no reputable drawings or CGI -- after all these years make me think it may have been shelved or cancelled a while ago. I personally think a light-medium weight supersonic SSM should be developed, but something like brahmos and granit aren't the way to go. Rather, japan's SSM-3, and the proposed perseus missile are both better examples. Not as massive as the russian missiles, stealthy, and with both active radar and EO guidance.
As to the Russians -- well technically the brahmos fits your requirements, although it can be argued to only be a development of the yakhont. They're certainly ahead in the large supersonic anti ship missile race, but at the moment I don't think china's even competing in it.
the PLA seems to be focusing on a mass of much lighter, subsonic anti ship missiles like YJ-82 and the longer ranged YJ-62. However the AShM industry seems to be diverging into two directions now -- subsonic, stealthy, long range, and supersonic, stealthy, and shorter range. The PLA should invest in both.
Hopefully they are.
YJ-82K and KD-88, while they are good missiles, will be unable to fit into J-31's weapon bays I believe. Fortunately china has quite a robust cruise missile background so it should only be a matter of time.
YJ-82K and KD-88, while they are good missiles, will be unable to fit into J-31's weapon bays I believe. Fortunately china has quite a robust cruise missile background so it should only be a matter of time.