Chinese shipbuilding industry

joshuatree said:

Nah, it just means the Australian catamaran design imported may have served as the underlying platform and this lady put in the efforts to modify, adapt, and develop the blueprints for the 022. It's not uncommon for many products to be designed with something else as a basis, inspiration, or benchmark.

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exactly.

Lion said:

Precisely but very obvious someone try to give a cheap shot as an simple cut and paste job!

Basically, I see it as tasteless move.

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I dont want to question the competence of this naval designer. It was a good job designing the type 022. However, i put that link so that people know that it was based on a imported design. That info wasnt present on the previous post.

You dont have to be that defensive, you know.

kroko said:

exactly.



I dont want to question the competence of this naval designer. It was a good job designing the type 022. However, i put that link so that people know that it was based on a imported design. That info wasnt present on the previous post.

You dont have to be that defensive, you know.

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How thoughtful of you! After we question you then start to state yr intention. I think from yr past post and track record speaks for yr real intention. If i never question and joshuatree never added those sentence. Some laymen come in and view yr post may think no credit is given as it just a cheap cut and paste job.

Lion said:

How thoughtful of you! After we question you then start to state yr intention. I think from yr past post and track record speaks for yr real intention. If i never question and joshuatree never added those sentence. Some laymen come in and view yr post may think no credit is given as it just a cheap cut and paste job.

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Actually this kroko guy is a super troll, just go look at the ballistic missile thread about the DF-41.
His trolling is very good.

He is that typical 'china can't do this' troll.

Ignore him.

Lion said:

Precisely but very obvious someone try to give a cheap shot as an simple cut and paste job!

Basically, I see it as tasteless move.

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What do you expect ? We still have kids who think you can copy a stealth jet from looking at photos and downloading some files after all.

kroko said:

Well, according to this article, type 022 design is based on an australian catamaran design.

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Right, globalsecurity, the foremost expert on Chinese military affairs.

To be fair though, the 022 is no doubt based on the Australian wave piercing catamaran CONCEPT, but there is no evidence whatsoever to support the claim that the 022 is based on AMD's design. The contract that globalsecurity mentioned in their story about AMD/SeaBus designed a "patrol boat speced like 022 for PLAN" is in fact a simple civilian ferry purchased by PLAN ESF as a ferry (Dongjiao 95).

J-XX said:

Code:

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Actually this kroko guy is a super troll, just go look at the ballistic missile thread about the DF-41.
His trolling is very good.

He is that typical 'china can't do this' troll.

Ignore him.

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kroko has been a very respectable poster on this forum. As I've said before, you are allowed to questions on this forum.

You on the other hand has been using a non stopping nationalistic tone in every discussion and are in danger of getting a suspension.

tphuang said:

kroko has been a very respectable poster on this forum. As I've said before, you are allowed to questions on this forum.

You on the other hand has been using a non stopping nationalistic tone in every discussion and are in danger of getting a suspension.

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Funny, I never see a forum on American affairs ever having an issue with anyone chanting the proverbial "USA, USA!!!". So what if he really was constantly "nationalistic"? Who gets offended by it here? The answer is that the only people who would get offended are those on the opposite end of the spectrum, you know, those who hold either overtly or covertly anti-China sentiments.

If this "forum" allows questions, (Duh!), then what is your problem with him questioning another poster's legitimacy? But clearly, you meant to say that you only want someone to constantly bash China's capability to do anything in a negative tone, but not someone who constantly asserts otherwise. You described the former anti-China type as being "respectable", while the latter pro-China poster as intolerable, all on a forum about China's military. Such pathetic irony can only be seen on such a forum. It speaks volumes about not just the person you are behind that screen name, but also the "forum" that made you something of a "super moderator". *Rolls eyes* LMAO.

govahnator said:

Funny, I never see a forum on American affairs ever having an issue with anyone chanting the proverbial "USA, USA!!!". So what if he really was constantly "nationalistic"? Who gets offended by it here? The answer is that the only people who would get offended are those on the opposite end of the spectrum, you know, those who hold either overtly or covertly anti-China sentiments.

If this "forum" allows questions, (Duh!), then what is your problem with him questioning another poster's legitimacy? But clearly, you meant to say that you only want someone to constantly bash China's capability to do anything in a negative tone, but not someone who constantly asserts otherwise. You described the former anti-China type as being "respectable", while the latter pro-China poster as intolerable, all on a forum about China's military. Such pathetic irony can only be seen on such a forum. It speaks volumes about not just the person you are behind that screen name, but also the "forum" that made you something of a "super moderator". *Rolls eyes* LMAO.

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There is no shortage of celebration of Chinese achievement on this forum. But regardless of the orientation of this forum, we intend to make this forum one based on technical and logic analysis rather than pure nationalistic ranting. There are other forums for the latter. If you don't want to use evidence and reason, you can go to those forums. In the case of J-XX and ChinaGuy, they have repeatedly used the term of "Chinese characteristics" as evidence and support for any argument they want to make, regardless of how much sense it makes. People come here to learn and discuss, not to read about how Chinese characteristics can miraculously cure all technical and physical problems that PLA might face.

We have a new group of members recently who get annoyed and defensive anytime older members like myself is conservative about our projection of PLA'N's capability and attack us over it. If ChinaGuy and J-XX go to military forums in China, I guarantee they will get laughed off those forums for their ignorance. I know this, because I visit those bbs almost everyday. I don't see why this forum has to stand such lowering of quality of posts. For example, the other day, I was told that I'm lucky to have left China when I did, because I would get sent to re-education camp and tortured (or something to that effect). This is the kind of personal attack that's thrown out. Just because this kind of immaturity exists in other places doesn't mean they need to exist here. I've spent enough time on those places defending against crazy China haters to know that I don't want it here.

Is there any reason why China is not producing 9000+ ton displacement destroyer/cruisers?

052C and 052C will all be somewhere around 7000 ton. Do they have problems with the engines which prevent them from producing bigger ships?

jackliu said:

Is there any reason why China is not producing 9000+ ton displacement destroyer/cruisers?

052C and 052C will all be somewhere around 7000 ton. Do they have problems with the engines which prevent them from producing bigger ships?

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Engine problem probably is still the main bottleneck. However, Chinese military had been conservative in their modernization throughout history. It's possible that they were just cautious.

When building big war planes and warships, bigger displacement doesn't just mean bigger hulls. There are a lot of other factors influencing the final outcome. I'm sure there are a lot of technical challenges that we don't know about. If it was so easy making ships bigger, the French and the English would have probably already built countless 10,000+ ton destroyers/cruisers.

Judging just based on personal experience, even just modifying a car takes a lot more effort than people think it would take. When putting in a bigger engine, the internals have to be gutted for space, fuel pumps have to be replaced to keep up. The radiators have to be upgraded to cool the engine. Lubricants have to be changed. Usually turbos have to have special exhausts. With the added power, the chassis then has to be reinforced, or else it could deform under hard accelerations. But these are just for straight speed accelerations, if you want any real cornering performances, you would then have to get racing suspensions and high end tires.

Just modifying the car alone could take a team of engineers a year or two (eg. AMG for Mercedes). When even a simple car takes this much effort to modify, can you imagine enlarging and improving/upgrading a billion dollar warship?

Modern marvels like destroyers and aircraft carriers don't just pop up by rubbing the Aladin's lamp. They are sweat and blood of countless engineers. It's ridiculous to hear rumours from Chinese fanboys saying that two/three 100,000+ tons nuclear aircraft carriers are already under construction in China. They simply don't understand the difficulties and challenges in those projects. If they were so easy to build, then every country would have a few of them.