Chinese shipbuilding industry

Preux

Junior Member
There is a few sources on Jane

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Where it cited the missile has been spotted many times on Chinese aircraft.

As for Russian missile complex are ahead, you can say the same for everything else for Russia... 20 years ago, the whole point of this discussion is saying that China is moving ahead, and they have indeed officially received Kh-31 in 1997, but chances are they have receive the technology much earlier than that, so it gives them plenty of time to work on it.

And lastly, Kh-31 is the last ramjet missile of smaller size being produced in USSR/Russia, they have not come up with another new ramjet missile since that. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Janes also cited a 140mm armed Chinese tank... 10 years ago. Surprisingly, Jane's reliability when it comes to Chinese weapons is between 'non-existent' and 'nil'. If you seriously think it exists, shouldn't be hard to show us a single photo of this YJ-12.

And I don't know why you are focusing on ramjet missile of small size, either, given that the discussion is on AShM in general.
 

Preux

Junior Member
Unfortunately Janes seems to be the only reputable source for this mysterious YJ-12, and any other mentions of it seem to be clones of the janes article.

Personally the lack of photos of such a missile -- even no reputable drawings or CGI -- after all these years make me think it may have been shelved or cancelled a while ago. I personally think a light-medium weight supersonic SSM should be developed, but something like brahmos and granit aren't the way to go. Rather, japan's SSM-3, and the proposed perseus missile are both better examples. Not as massive as the russian missiles, stealthy, and with both active radar and EO guidance.

As to the Russians -- well technically the brahmos fits your requirements, although it can be argued to only be a development of the yakhont. They're certainly ahead in the large supersonic anti ship missile race, but at the moment I don't think china's even competing in it.

the PLA seems to be focusing on a mass of much lighter, subsonic anti ship missiles like YJ-82 and the longer ranged YJ-62. However the AShM industry seems to be diverging into two directions now -- subsonic, stealthy, long range, and supersonic, stealthy, and shorter range. The PLA should invest in both.

A light medium-weight supersonic AShM exists - the YJ-91 complex, based on the Kh-31, a fairly respectable system.

China used to be interested in large, long range supersonic missiles - the HY-2 complex based on the YJ-1, but didn't go too far in it, in my opinion wisely.
 

kroko

Senior Member
Re: U.S. Navy Take Notice: China is Becoming a World-Class Military Shipbuilder

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By Gabe Collins and Andrew Erickson



Eight key themes, listed sequentially below, characterize China’s rise as a world-class military shipbuilder:

1. China’s warship buildout thus far supports modernization and replacement, not rapid expansion
2. Chinese military shipbuilders are catching up to Russian and U.S. Yards
3. China’s military shipbuilders are using modular mass production techniques
4. China’s military shipyards appear to be sharing design and production information across company lines
5. China’s military shipbuilders will be able to indigenously build aircraft carriers
6. China will retain a military shipbuilding cost advantage
7. China’s neighbors feel increasingly compelled to augment their naval forces in response to Chinese warship production
8. China now has the potential to become a significant exporter of diesel submarines and smaller surface warships

The authors speculate that the top-3 candidate yards to build China's indigenous aircraft carriers:
  • CSIC Bohai Shipbuilding Heavy Industry complex near Huludao
  • Changxing Island yard
  • CSIC’s Dalian yard
Comments: I'm curious about what yardsticks the authors are using when they claimed China's military shipbuilding capabilities will be as good as Russia's are now by 2020, and near US's current level by 2030. Are they talking about quality and the level of technical sophistication of the major capital warships, such nuclear submarines and aircraft carriers?

The problem i have with this report is that it only uses the number of hulls produced as a yardstick. No mention is given of the technological capabilities or how they stand compared to other nations. That’s how he manages to say to china´s shipbuilding capabilities are ahead of Europe’s and japan. That’s a very limited analysis. Even US president Obama has said that what matters is capacities of ships, not the numbers (i think it was in the last debate or something).

It also assumes that the current pace of shipbuilding in china will be sustained or increased when we don’t a clue about if that will happen or not. US intelligence also said in 2001 that china´s arsenal of ICBM´s would be 75-150 ICBM´s capable of reaching the US and that hasn’t materialized. Not the first time this has happened. They also projected in 1984 that china would have 818 nuclear warheads in 1994...
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In the end it mentions that there is a need for the US navy to increase the pace of construction of ships. IMO this merits the question of how independent the authors are from the US industrial-military complex (and/or others interests) taking into account the enormous advantage in both quality and even quantity of USN ships relative to any other navy in the world. I’m always suspicious when I read military analysts talking about increasing the size of the US military ignoring the fact that the US military enjoys a huge advantage over other nations. Not saying that they aren’t independent, but for me it raises suspicions.
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
China has the C-70X complex which fits that role, they've been working on it since the early 2000s.

Look at that Naval Strike Missile, it is 4 meter long and able to travel 180km, this is simply amazing. C-701 is 2 meter long and only travels 20km.

But I think it is within China's ability to develop a 4 meter missile and travel 200+ km, because it seems they are working on C-80X with 400+KM range and C-80X is a 6 meter long missile. So it is possible, not sure they are working on it, they should.

Stealthy J-31 loaded with 2 anti ship missile in the internal bay is deadly. Maybe we'll see it by the time J-31 go into service on the carrier.

And they should probably make the missile stealthy as well.
 

jackliu

Banned Idiot
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Just watched this, one of the guest was an PLAN Rear Admiral. At 21:00 he actually started to compare Chinese navy with Japans. This is very uncharacteristic of China, because this is first time I heard them compare themselves with another nation like internet fanboys.

Anyway, he especially mentioned Russian/Indian Brahmos and says China have missiles that have far surpass that in performance which includes range.
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
Look at that Naval Strike Missile, it is 4 meter long and able to travel 180km, this is simply amazing. C-701 is 2 meter long and only travels 20km.

That's because C-701 uses a rocket engine while Naval Strike Missile uses a Turbo Jet. If C-701 were to shift to a turbo-jet, you will should similar range gains in C-801 vs C-802. (40km -> 120km -> 160km) So we may be looking at C-70x at 60-80km
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
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Just watched this, one of the guest was an PLAN Rear Admiral. At 21:00 he actually started to compare Chinese navy with Japans. This is very uncharacteristic of China, because this is first time I heard them compare themselves with another nation like internet fanboys.

Anyway, he especially mentioned Russian/Indian Brahmos and says China have missiles that have far surpass that in performance which includes range.

Not only that, they spent a good 8-10 mins (out of 25 min program) talking about J-31, Carrier operations and CATOBAR (in that order). Trying to tell us something? Well, I guess either China is becoming more transparent, this sort of talk on official media is unimaginable just a few years ago.
 

luhai

Banned Idiot
That's because C-701 uses a rocket engine while Naval Strike Missile uses a Turbo Jet. If C-701 were to shift to a turbo-jet, you will should similar range gains in C-801 vs C-802. (40km -> 120km -> 160km) So we may be looking at C-70x at 60-80km

Speaking of Caocao, here is the C-705 just shown on Zhuhai, with air launched range of 140km, would probably mean a ship launched range of 60-80km.

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escobar

Brigadier
from HP

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