Chinese semiconductor thread II

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
10 Maobux says this "lithos" is hvpc. Havok already stated the SSA800 uses a 1.35 NA lens group, the state of the art in immersion DUV lithography. So this picture gets put in the trash can.
I don't know man, as much I disagree with hvpc in A LOT of things he seems to be a bit more knowledgeable than this, this is think tanker level of thinking man. He or She i don't, is very sceptical on in the performance of the scanners of SMEE but at least he acknowledge their existence. This dude is saying that SMEE is in the 70s. and if he is probably talking about the 500 series NONE OF THOSE LENSES ARE FOR THE DAMN 500 SERIES, those scanners as the ones used by Canon use a very complicated lens system to achieve a reduction 1X vs 4X required for IC manufacturing.

1707519770981.png
IS EQUAL? EH?

dont feed the trolls. dont feed the trolls.
 
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hereforsemithread

New Member
Registered Member
10 Maobux says this "lithos" is hvpc. Havok already stated the SSA800 uses a 1.35 NA lens group, the state of the art in immersion DUV lithography. So this picture gets put in the trash can.
hvpc works in the industry. He gets shit here for saying that it will probably take 2-3 years longer to get certain equipment indigenized than forum consensus predicts. Are you seriously not capable of distinguishing his mild pessimism from claims that China will take until 2035 to develop immersion DUV? This kind of knee jerk strawmanning is exactly why people with genuine expertise almost never stick around here
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
hvpc works in the industry. He gets shit here for saying that it will probably take 2-3 years longer to get certain equipment indigenized than forum consensus predicts. Are you seriously not capable of distinguishing his mild pessimism from claims that China will take until 2035 to develop immersion DUV?
I'm seriously quite capable of distinguishing lot of things. You don't think I know a little bit more about lithos than one diagram in a Twitter post? I've heard him discuss Chinese lithography on Twitter spaces and his biography and views align very closely with hvpc's. Including his view that if it isn't on SMEE's website or in a catalogue he has access to, then it doesn't exist.
 

hereforsemithread

New Member
Registered Member
I'm seriously quite capable of distinguishing lot of things. You don't think I know a little bit more about lithos than one diagram in a Twitter post? I've heard him discuss Chinese lithography on Twitter spaces and his biography and views align very closely with hvpc's. Including his view that if it isn't on SMEE's website or in a catalogue he has access to, then it doesn't exist.
@hvpc do you agree with the claim that it will take until 2050 at the earliest for China to commercialize domestically-sourced EUV equipment?
 

sunnymaxi

Captain
Registered Member
I don't know man, as much I disagree with hvpc in A LOT of things he seems to be a bit more knowledgeable than this, this is think tanker level of thinking man.
this is next level outdated chart i have seen on twitter..

0.75 NA lens group have developed back in 2018-19 and SMEE put this in 90nm machine then incorporate into 65nm machine later on. and 1.35 NA lens group successfully developed in 2021. havok also confirmed this.
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Abstract​

An adequate initial structure plays an important role in achieving a high-quality hyper-numerical-aperture (NA) catadioptric objective for an immersion lithography tool. A multi-step alternative grouping design method is innovated to achieve a feasible aspherical initial structure of the hyper-NA objective. The objective is first divided into three groups: the object-side group (G1), the middle group (G2), and the image-side group (G3), and then each group is designed separately. To guarantee the effective connection of these separate groups, G1 and G2 or G2 and G3 are connected as G12 or G32 on the object or image side with an aspherical structure. Then, through ray tracing in the forward path and the reverse path, G2 will be recalculated to a new aspherical structure, and the hybrid iterating process will be adopted to get a better G2 and to better connect the whole system. Finally, G1 and the new G2 and G3 are connected as a feasible aspherical initial structure of the hyper-NA catadioptric objective, which can be considered a good starting point for further optimization. A high-performance catadioptric objective with a hyper-NA of 1.35 was designed by the proposed method.

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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
hvpc works in the industry. He gets shit here for saying that it will probably take 2-3 years longer to get certain equipment indigenized than forum consensus predicts. Are you seriously not capable of distinguishing his mild pessimism from claims that China will take until 2035 to develop immersion DUV? This kind of knee jerk strawmanning is exactly why people with genuine expertise almost never stick around here

I think he is mostly memeing because hvpc is one of the more week known individuals here with similar skeptical sentiments, but I think what is a legitimate common trait being implied, is the inability to recognise and track Chinese side semiconductor rumours in a competent manner, and reliance on "official" releases of information as a gauge of actual progress or state.

In that sense, it is less so much that hvpc and this person are similar and more that that type of thinking is the usual way of tracking Chinese semi development by the majority of foreign observers, professional or not.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
I'm seriously quite capable of distinguishing lot of things. You don't think I know a little bit more about lithos than one diagram in a Twitter post? I've heard him discuss Chinese lithography on Twitter spaces and his biography and views align very closely with hvpc's. Including his view that if it isn't on SMEE's website or in a catalogue he has access to, then it doesn't exist.
I remember more of recent guys that has come down to this thread.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Including his view that if it isn't on SMEE's website or in a catalogue he has access to, then it doesn't exist.
That SMEE catalog thing is really common here. Specially for some people that care more about the money rather than the science. I post patents and research papers because shine a light to an opaque effort that is much much bigger than most people think especially for the stooges in D.C. that think that citing AND MISINTERPRETING Sohu articles or Weibo posts in their crappy papers is the way to go.
 

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
I think we should just move on. He is a troll who is after clicks. The likes on my comments are by him. SMEE is a company that was operating on lower-end niches of the industry because of ASML monopoly and the resulting lack of customers. Some things are just hard to enter.

troll.png
 

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
hvpc works in the industry. He gets shit here for saying that it will probably take 2-3 years longer to get certain equipment indigenized than forum consensus predicts. Are you seriously not capable of distinguishing his mild pessimism from claims that China will take until 2035 to develop immersion DUV? This kind of knee jerk strawmanning is exactly why people with genuine expertise almost never stick around here
is he the only person in the industry here or something?
 
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