Chinese semiconductor thread II

[GiantPanda]

Please don't mislead the world! MD-80/90 had 150-180 passenger capacity while ARJ-12 has 60-80 capacity. They are totally different beasts.

Go read up on the McDonnell Douglas assembly plant at SAIC and the ARJ-21 which seats up to 90.

Shanghai Aviation gave up the Y-10 to pivot to this plant and its tooling.

Why do you think China decided on an obsolete rear engine layout for its first airliner in 2005? The last fuselage mounted airliner in regular aviation (discounting the isolated Soviet jets) was designed in the 1960s -- the MD-80/B717.

 

[Quan8410]

Except if they perform worse than imported machines, they will still be imported. The exception would likely be CETC and other government contractors.

The west will eventually cutoff China from even the most outdated/primitive sector of chipmaking anyway. The domestic tool will improve. The foreign one must be phased out. Ideally before 2035, mature node should be made from 100% China tool and China material.

 

[curiouscat]

Except if they perform worse than imported machines, they will still be imported. The exception would likely be CETC and other government contractors.

Yes I think this is an important point many people miss. China needs to make sure the domestic alternatives are market competitive on top of being available. If the domestic alternatives are uncompetitive then companies may find it more optimal to just evade sanctions and continue to import western tools through roundabout methods instead of using domestic options anyway.

 

[GiantPanda]

The west will eventually cutoff China from even the most outdated/primitive sector of chipmaking anyway. The domestic tool will improve. The foreign one must be phased out. Ideally before 2035, mature node should be made from 100% China tool and China material.

I think Chinese industry knows by now that it can't rely on foreign equipment safely over time. But there is nothing wrong with importing until you can't. To stop importing before the ban actually happens is simply expanding the ban ahead of time.

The move towards domestic equipment is pretty much unstoppable at this juncture. No company can stake its long-term survival on imports.

That said, imports are important to expand the current base before the domestic products are mature. I see no one being critical of Chinese firms giving ASML nearly half of its revenue in 2023.

 

[sunnymaxi]

The west will eventually cutoff China from even the most outdated/primitive sector of chipmaking anyway. The domestic tool will improve. The foreign one must be phased out. Ideally before 2035, mature node should be made from 100% China tool and China material.

if you read MIT( Ministry of Information Technology) recent report.. they clearly mentioned about immersion(28nm) Non-litho tools being reached at international level or even better in some category..

All Non-Litho tools , material and EDA have successfully developed and entered in serial production.. Finfet capable Photoresists also start mass production..

i m not giving any specific date.. but China will be 100 percent self-sufficient in semi supply chain way before than 2035 ..

 

[tokenanalyst]

Yes I think this is an important point many people miss. China needs to make sure the domestic alternatives are market competitive on top of being available. If the domestic alternatives are uncompetitive then companies may find it more optimal to just evade sanctions and continue to import western tools through roundabout methods instead of using domestic options anyway.

The safest way to evade sanctions is by having domestic solutions and the best way to have domestic solutions is by starting using domestic solutions. lithography machines are no chips, these machines are pretty easy to export control.

Also there are companies that have been complete cut of off from accessing foreign litho machines like Jinhua and to some extent SMIC, that would benefit establishing relationships with domestic lithography companies to create this positive feedback loop. And to make things worse as i said before a lot of projects are funded by the goverment, at least 40% or more, a market big enough for the mass production of these lithography machines and to create a positive cycle.

 

[tokenanalyst]

Looks like panic is setting in, the senators Clown Stooge Committee on the SeeSeePee are not happy the US CEOs are begging the even bigger clowns in D.C. to reverse their probably half of their revenue killer sanctions that don't even make sense from "muh national security" point of view.

Personally I think they probably are not going achieve much, these super stooges are ideological motivated and now they have in their front lines the Silicon Valley Crypto-Bro AI doomsday cultists stooge, So the situation is not looking good for US semiconductor companies in China. Also this is the first time in US history that a lobby group have totally failed in the clown filled circus that is US politicians. If US citizens want cheaper healthcare and less money in the money pit that are defense contractors they should use China as scapegoat.

And then there still a lot delusional liberals in Shanghai thinking that this stooges will get tired or these sanctions will witter away. We have remember that these are the same clowns who wasted 20 years and trillions of dollars fighting a war just to see the same Taliban <their own creation by the way> take the power again. This are the level of clownish that US and Chinese companies are dealing with.

 

[Wahid145]

another point to be noted, Digitimes completely misreporting here regarding 65nm yet to enter in production and shipment .. Neither Ministry of IT mentioned about this but he automatically assume.. LOL

U-Precision IPO reveal, they have delivered 4 sets of dry dual-stage workpiece in 2020-2021 and additional 4 were delivered in 2022 .

View attachment 135931

View attachment 135932
U-Precision delivered another 10 units of dry machine in 2023 ..

don't know why some members blindly believe on Digitimes.. @Wahid145

Haha, it's not like that. Digitimes is interesting because they are veteran Chip reporters and sometimes their reports can be very insightful (I do admit it's a hit or a miss)

 

[tphuang]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1836024053548597751

The current ADAS chip market in China as we can see and who is working on what.

 

[tokenanalyst]

Kaishitong, a subsidiary of Wanye Enterprise, was selected as a national-level specialized and innovative "little giant" enterprise​

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On September 2, the Shanghai Municipal Economic and Information Commission released the sixth batch of "Little Giant" enterprises, and Shanghai Kaishitong Semiconductor Co., Ltd., a subsidiary of Wanye Enterprise, was selected as a national-level "Little Giant" enterprise.

"Specialization, Specialization, Specialization and Innovation" is a key cultivation project implemented by the state to guide small and medium-sized enterprises to develop in the direction of specialization, refinement, specialization and innovation. National-level "Little Giant" enterprises are the highest level of the high-quality small and medium-sized enterprise cultivation system built by the Ministry of Industry and Information Technology, representing the cutting-edge force in the industry. These enterprises occupy an important position in the core areas of the industrial foundation and the key links of the industrial chain. With their innovation capabilities, core technologies, high market share and excellent quality and efficiency, they are regarded as an important force in promoting the development of new quality productivity.

Kaishitong focuses on the research and development and industrialization of ion implanter technology. Adhering to the concept of technology leadership and innovative breakthroughs, relying on cutting-edge technology and excellent services, it stands out in the field of domestic high-end ion implanters and becomes a leader in the industry. The title of national-level specialized and new "little giant" enterprise is a recognition of Kaishitong's technical strength and market competitiveness, and also expresses the expectation and encouragement for its continued climb in the field of science and technology and greater breakthroughs.​

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