Chinese semiconductor thread II

curiouscat

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Chinese tech conglomerate Huawei has dismissed rumors that it is increasing efforts in PC chip R&D, to launch the Kirin X series PC processor line in 2024.

Chinese tech conglomerate Huawei has dismissed rumors that it is increasing efforts in PC chip R&D, to launch the Kirin X series PC processor line in 2024.
It has been reported that the US Department of Commerce revoked licenses from several US chip companies, including Qualcomm and Intel, that allow them to export chips to Huawei, impacting the chip supply of Huawei's mobile phones and notebooks. However, industry insiders pointed out that the
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According to online rumors, HiSilicon president He Tingbo and Huawei consumer business group chairman Richard Yu issued an internal letter proposing the launch of products equipped with the Kirin X series (tentative name) PC platform sometime in 2024. Huawei later denied the news.
Supply chain sources revealed that Huawei will release a new PC product, the Qingyun W515x, in May 2024. The PC will launch with an 8-core 12-thread Kirin 9000C processor and support LPDDR5, Wi-Fi 6, and Huawei universal flash storage (UFS) hard drives and solid-state drives (SSD).
Huawei will launch the KOS 2403 and UOS 1070 versions of the Qingyun W515x PC, respectively equipped with the local Kirin Operating System (KOS) and Unity Operating System (UOS). The official site for Huawei Qingyun covers notebooks, tablets, desktops, printers, wearables, and computer monitors.
It has not been ruled out that Huawei will launch PC products with its Kunpeng CPU and
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after 2025. Huawei has already launched notebooks and tablets with the HarmonyOS platform, which are used in the e-learning systems of local colleges and academic units in China.
PC insiders pointed out that the Chinese government, public institutions, and some state-owned enterprises will increase efforts to purchase "xinchuang" (i.e., IT application innovation) products focused on supply chain independence and network security. As the proportion of "xinchuang" purchases increases, the UOS and KOS systems will also see an increase.
This is an important development opportunity for local brands, such as Lenovo, Huawei, and Tsinghua Tongfang. The public sector in China has shifted nearly 85% of procurement to local sources. Overseas brands such as Dell and Hewlett-Packard are seeing their market share in China decrease, from more than 35% to less than 15%.
On March 11, 2024, China's Central Government Procurement Center issued a notice
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. Local Chinese CPUs include Loongson, FeiTeng, Zhaoxin, Kunpeng, and Sunway. Local operating systems include KOS, UOS, and NFS-China. These are some of the CPUs and systems that have met official local security requirements.
Driven by policies, the adoption of domestic Chinese CPUs and operating systems by the government of China and Chinese companies has increased. The procurement of local components for PCs will also expand, including monitors, memory, flash memory, and batteries, providing local Chinese component suppliers with room for development.

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curiouscat

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China's chip self-sufficiency dream a 21st Century Great Leap Forward? How much longer can it subsidize?​


Against the backdrop of a secular slowdown in economic growth and a real-estate bubble burst that added debt burdens, how much longer can China continue to subsidize its industries and realize the dream of building a self-sufficient semiconductor sup...

Against the backdrop of a secular slowdown in economic growth and a real-estate bubble burst that added debt burdens, how much longer can China continue to subsidize its industries and realize the dream of building a self-sufficient semiconductor supply chain?
The semiconductor supply chain is highly complex and depends on the global division of labor that many countries have spent decades to build up what it is today. Can China succeed in building a domestic semiconductor supply chain just like it did with solar cells, electrical vehicles, and lithium batteries?
"Semiconductors are highly complex and cannot have all the materials, equipment, components, and chips in the entire processes manufactured by a single country. I think it is absurd and dangerous for China to try to build up a supply chain from upstream to downstream, doing logic IC, memory, and all equipment, materials, and components all at the same time," said Guo-chen Wang, an assistant research fellow at Taiwan's Chung-hua Institution for Economic Research (CIER), who is an economist specializing in China's economy.
"How long will it take for China to do everything from upstream rare earths to the end product? How many resources are needed even if they can rely on their market? It would be very inefficient trying to make all the products that are now produced by other countries," said Wang, emphasizing that not even the US or Taiwan could do that. "I don't think it is achievable no matter how many trillion dollars more to be poured into their semiconductor pipedream."
China aims to self-supply 70% of the semiconductors used for its domestic market by 2025 in its "Made in China 2025" Initiative launched in 2014, but according to TechInsights, in 2023, the local self-sufficiency rate of semiconductors was about 23.3%. However, if the production value of foreign companies' fabs (such as Samsung, SK Hynix, and TSMC) in China were excluded, the self-sufficiency rate would be only 12%.
Credit: TechInsights

Credit: TechInsights
Wang compares China's nationwide effort to build a semiconductor supply chain to the Great Leap Forward movement in 1957-1960, which resulted in producing massive quantities of low-quality iron and steel, over-exploiting resources, wasting materials, and seriously damaging the ecological environment.
"Another issue this year is how much money can China still churn out to subsidize the industries. After years of subsidizing solar panels and EVs, China managed to get the current results, but how long can China afford to continue subsidizing them plus the semiconductor supply chain now when its economy and finances are deteriorating?"

Subsidies, corruption, and scams​

China shocked the world when the Kirin 9000 chip was found to be made by SMIC's 7nm processing technology last summer despite the US sanctions. Huawei recently launched another new smartphone with
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, not willing to be left out of the AI chip race.
Huawei has invested heavily in building its semiconductor ecosystem and has teamed up with SMIC to manufacture the advanced chip designed by its IC design arm, HiSilicon. JCET, a Chinese packaging and testing company,
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. All of them, of course, have received subsidies from the Chinese government.
A
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revealed that 32 fabs in China will expand production lines for 28 nm and older mature chips by the end of 2024. Data from TrendForce indicates that the number of China's fabs hits 77, mainly targeting the mature process. The 25 projects currently under construction in China and are expected to start production in the next 2-3 years will add 463,000 units of 8-inch wafer output and 1.663 million units of 12-inch wafer output by 2026.
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from the Netherlands and
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to fulfill the ambitious target while developing
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.
The majority of the added output is for mature-node chips manufactured with 28nm processing technology and older, and 70% of the new fabs are expected to provide pure-play foundry services. "If the majority of the 12-inch fabs (in China) are going to be foundries, it may face difficulties to find enough orders to keep all the 12-inch production lines busy, and thus may result in redundancy and heavy losses for the fabs," said a semiconductor industry expert.
However, in the process of building up the production lines, the procurement of equipment, materials, and factory buildings, would have created rent-seeking opportunities for swindlers whose aim is to make personal gain in wealth and not truly competent in manufacturing semiconductors. Such examples can be found in Wuhan Hongxin, after investing CNY130 billion (US$1.8 billion) in 3 years, ended up in bankruptcy.
In December 2019, the company even purchased a lithography machine from ASML. However, Wuhan Hongxin mortgaged this "brand new and unused" lithography machine to Wuhan Rural Commercial Bank on January 20, 2020, for a loan of CNY581.8 million.
The China Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund, or so-called "the Big Fund", has invested at last CNY342.8 billion (US$47.4 billion) since 2014 and is said to raise another CNY300 billion this year. However, at least 7 fund managers and executives of invested companies have been under arrest for corruption investigations.

A perfect storm in the making​

Although the central government of China transferred the proceeds of special treasury bonds exceeding CNY10 trillion to the local governments to help alleviate debt burdens, the continued contraction of the real estate market is still adding financial pressure on local governments.
"Now that the Chinese real estate market is in depression and the government is placing all its bets on high-tech industries. This will lead to overcapacity," said Wang.
Rhodium Group estimated China's actual growth in 2023 was more like 1.5%, rather than the official government figure, owing to an ailing property market, limited consumer spending, falling trade surplus, and battered local government finances. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) forecasts China's GDP growth for 2024 at 4.6%, lower than the 5% target set by Beijing.
Guo-chen Wang said that the real estate market is on the brink of collapse if Beijing fails to bail out the industry with some form of quantitative easing at the size of CNY10 trillion to alleviate debt servicing pressure. And since the dollar debt interest rates remain high, failure to raise sufficient financing at an affordable cost could in turn lead to a destabilizing debt crisis. In case of a financial crisis triggered by a real estate market collapse, China's economic growth could drop to 3% or even faces a recession, said Wang.
Besides net capital outflows seen since last year, China is also facing renewed pressure on currency depreciation. Peter Kurz, Chief Strategy Officer of Quantum International Corp. (QIC), a capital market consultancy firm, warned that the depreciation of the Japanese yen below JPY160 to US$1 will exert greater depreciation pressure on the Chinese yuan, as the People's Bank of China continues to cut interest rates, widening the interest rate gap with the US dollar.
When the market has built an expectation for currency depreciation, capital outflow will be hard to halt. A perfect storm is in the making, but the majority of local media and economists are too fearful to sound the alarms. How much longer can China continue to subsidize its semiconductor industry and others? Maybe not for too long.
Credit: AFP


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curiouscat

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China-based semiconductor equipment suppliers continue to see explosive growth​

Jingyue Hsiao, DIGITIMES Asia, TaipeiMonday 6 May 2024
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Credit: AFP

Amid the indigenization efforts, China-based semiconductor equipment makers continued to witness explosive growth over the past year, as most companies reported double-digit growth in sales and profits.
Amid the indigenization efforts, China-based semiconductor equipment makers continued to witness explosive growth over the past year, as most companies reported double-digit growth in sales and profits.
In the latest financial report, Naura Technology had a whopping 50% increase in sales and a significant 65% boost in profits last year. Zhejiang JIngsheng Mechanical and Electrical also had a remarkable performance, with nearly a 70% surge in sales and close to a 60% rise in profits. Similarly, AMEC saw strong growth in both sales and profits, hitting double-digit figures during the same timeframe.
Naura Technology highlighted in its annual report that recent years have witnessed a surge in demand for ICs due to the rapid advancement of technologies like AI, 5G, and IoT. The recovery in the latter half of 2023 saw an uptick in sales for end products such as smartphones and PCs. Additionally, the ongoing construction of AI infrastructure has fueled further demand for hardware in the market.
Naura Technology said that the semiconductor industry in China hit a record high in 2023. Based on SEMI data, semiconductor equipment sales in China surged to US$34.2 billion, an 8% increase from the previous year and capturing a global market share of 30.3%. This underscores China's importance in the global integrated circuit equipment market and demonstrates the robust demand for such equipment within the Chinese market.
In its annual report, AMEC announced a notable surge in market shares for CCP and ICP etching systems. The company attributed this growth to its diverse portfolio, ongoing advancements in key technologies, swift product iterations, and extensive coverage of etching equipment.
Naura Technology highlighted several risk factors in its report, including the downturn in the semiconductor market, potential overseas supply disruptions, a slowdown in domestic demand for semiconductor equipment, slower-than-expected progress in high-end equipment R&D, and escalating industry competition.
In the near future, domestic demand in China is projected to continue supporting the operations of semiconductor equipment suppliers based in the country. This comes amid reports from Bloomberg suggesting that Japan is exploring the possibility of expanding export restrictions on four technologies linked to semiconductors or quantum computing.
Meanwhile, semiconductor equipment suppliers outside China still rely on the market for growth. According to ASML's latest financial results, China accounted for nearly half of the company's revenue in the first quarter of 2024, as its customers in Taiwan, South Korea, and Japan reduced procurement amid an industrial downturn.
China-based semiconductor supplier financial summary (CNYm)
202120222023
SupplierProfitSalesProfitSalesProfitSales
Naura Technology1,077.49,683.52,352.714,688.13,899.122,079.5
Zhejiang Jingsheng Mechanical & Electrical1,711.75,961.42,924.410,638.34,557.517,983.2
AMEC1,011.43,108.11,169.84,739.81,785.96,263.5
ACM Research Shanghai266.21,620.9668.52,873.0910.53,888.3
Piotech68.5758.0368.51,705.6662.62,705.0
Hwatsing Technology198.3804.9501.61,648.8723.72,508.0
Hangzhou Chang Chuan Technology218.21,511.2461.12,576.545.21,775.1
Kingsemi77.3828.7200.21,384.9250.61,717.0
Xinyichang Technology232.01,196.6204.71,183.760.31,040.2
Skyverse Technology53.4360.611.7509.2140.3890.9
Beijing Huafeng Test & Control Technology438.8878.3526.31,070.6251.7690.9
Source: Bloomberg, May 2024

Article you requested @Wahid145

If anyone needs anything paywalled including Digitimes tag me. I have access to a lot of paywalled content through my work.
Personally I don't see a lot of value in these three Digitimes articles. They're largely just rehashing existing numbers seen in other reports.
 

tokenanalyst

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"Semiconductors are highly complex and cannot have all the materials, equipment, components, and chips in the entire processes manufactured by a single country.
For an island as small as Taiwan? yes, for a country as big China? is not as impossible as Mr. Wang may think. In fact is already happening and they will expand not just locally but globally.
Also a lot of semiconductors supplier are just companies taking the opportunity that have presented due US export controls, many of these companies are rising private capital. Will all them survive? no, but the ones who do will reap the rewards.

I think it is absurd and dangerous for China to try to build up a supply chain from upstream to downstream, doing logic IC, memory, and all equipment, materials, and components all at the same time,"
I think more absurd for the politicians in W.D.C to think that they can stop the progress of a country like China and is even more dangerous for Chinese companies to rely on the goodwill US politicians, Chinese companies have no option that to develop a secondary supply chain due US export controls, that doesn't mean everything but means a lot. The rule is, Chinese companies are going to keeping buying from the world as long they are allowed to, specially the most high end stuff, but at soon crap like export controls are impose, you will see the rise of a Chinese company in the same area.

"Another issue this year is how much money can China still churn out to subsidize the industries. After years of subsidizing solar panels and EVs, China managed to get the current results, but how long can China afford to continue subsidizing them plus the semiconductor supply chain now when its economy and finances are deteriorating?"
This is something that is been thrown a lot, subsidies, yes there are subsidies and lot BUT if you do your research a lot of the money into the semiconductor industry is increasing coming from private sources, especially from real state investors that they are putting money in the China industrial and service sector. The real state correction and US sanctions has reshuffle China private investment sector to areas that was mainly dominated by state investment. Now the state money is going more to areas were investors avoid like EUV lithography due high risk

"I don't think it is achievable no matter how many trillion dollars more to be poured into their semiconductor pipedream."
To be honest China is basically independent right now, all the technologies are there, there purely domestic fabs processing wafers right now.
Wang compares China's nationwide effort to build a semiconductor supply chain to the Great Leap Forward movement in 1957-1960, which resulted in producing massive quantities of low-quality iron and steel, over-exploiting resources, wasting materials, and seriously damaging the ecological environment.
No Mr. Wang is the natural market response to US export controls and sanctions, this is not a command from Xi but a natural response of some Chinese companies trying to survive a hostile environment and others trying to take advantage of the situation, as they should.

What Mr. Wang think that a companies like Huawei should do? Just let themselves kill to satisfy the weird cold war fantasies of Tom Cotton? No Chinese companies will put a fight, they will create a secondary supply Chain than then it will integrate itself into global semiconductor supply chain, that is inevitable and is already happening.
 

zbb

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For an island as small as Taiwan? yes, for a country as big China? is not as impossible as Mr. Wang may think. In fact is already happening and they will expand not just locally but globally.
These people keep thinking that sanctioning China is like sanctioning Cuba, Syria, or North Korea. Sanctions only work when the productive part of your economy is much larger than your opponent's. China's manufacturing sector is 1/3 of the global total and more than US, Japan, Germany, the Netherlands, South Korea, and Taiwan combined. When they sanction China, they are really sanctioning their own industries.

No Mr. Wang is the natural market response to US export controls and sanctions, this is not a command from Xi but a natural response of some Chinese companies trying to survive a hostile environment and others trying to take advantage of the situation, as they should.
Ironically, before the US sanctions, China had to work against market forces to develop an indigenous semiconductor supply chain, which is extremely difficult and expensive given the depth, complexity, and high capital requirements of the semiconductor supply chain. Now with the US sanctions, market forces are aligned with China's goal of an indigenous semiconductor supply chain. Wang may very well have been right that no amount of subsidies and top-down direction/planning would have been enough, but thanks to the sanctions, the same market forces that led the development of the semiconductor industry in the advanced economies will now help China develop its own industry.
 
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olalavn

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Chinese tech conglomerate Huawei has dismissed rumors that it is increasing efforts in PC chip R&D, to launch the Kirin X series PC processor line in 2024.

Chinese tech conglomerate Huawei has dismissed rumors that it is increasing efforts in PC chip R&D, to launch the Kirin X series PC processor line in 2024.
It has been reported that the US Department of Commerce revoked licenses from several US chip companies, including Qualcomm and Intel, that allow them to export chips to Huawei, impacting the chip supply of Huawei's mobile phones and notebooks. However, industry insiders pointed out that the
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According to online rumors, HiSilicon president He Tingbo and Huawei consumer business group chairman Richard Yu issued an internal letter proposing the launch of products equipped with the Kirin X series (tentative name) PC platform sometime in 2024. Huawei later denied the news.
Supply chain sources revealed that Huawei will release a new PC product, the Qingyun W515x, in May 2024. The PC will launch with an 8-core 12-thread Kirin 9000C processor and support LPDDR5, Wi-Fi 6, and Huawei universal flash storage (UFS) hard drives and solid-state drives (SSD).
Huawei will launch the KOS 2403 and UOS 1070 versions of the Qingyun W515x PC, respectively equipped with the local Kirin Operating System (KOS) and Unity Operating System (UOS). The official site for Huawei Qingyun covers notebooks, tablets, desktops, printers, wearables, and computer monitors.
It has not been ruled out that Huawei will launch PC products with its Kunpeng CPU and
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after 2025. Huawei has already launched notebooks and tablets with the HarmonyOS platform, which are used in the e-learning systems of local colleges and academic units in China.
PC insiders pointed out that the Chinese government, public institutions, and some state-owned enterprises will increase efforts to purchase "xinchuang" (i.e., IT application innovation) products focused on supply chain independence and network security. As the proportion of "xinchuang" purchases increases, the UOS and KOS systems will also see an increase.
This is an important development opportunity for local brands, such as Lenovo, Huawei, and Tsinghua Tongfang. The public sector in China has shifted nearly 85% of procurement to local sources. Overseas brands such as Dell and Hewlett-Packard are seeing their market share in China decrease, from more than 35% to less than 15%.
On March 11, 2024, China's Central Government Procurement Center issued a notice
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. Local Chinese CPUs include Loongson, FeiTeng, Zhaoxin, Kunpeng, and Sunway. Local operating systems include KOS, UOS, and NFS-China. These are some of the CPUs and systems that have met official local security requirements.
Driven by policies, the adoption of domestic Chinese CPUs and operating systems by the government of China and Chinese companies has increased. The procurement of local components for PCs will also expand, including monitors, memory, flash memory, and batteries, providing local Chinese component suppliers with room for development.

Article you requested @Wahid145
The more they reject it, the more they have done it, and it has been produced
 

tokenanalyst

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These people keep thinking that sanctioning China is like sanctioning Cuba, Syria, or North Korea. Sanctions only work when the productive part of your economy is much larger than your opponent's. China's manufacturing sector is 1/3 of the global total and more than US, Japan, Germany, the Netherlands, South Korea, and Taiwan combined. When they sanction China, they are really sanctioning their own industries.


Ironically, before the US sanctions, China had to work against market forces to develop an indigenous semiconductor supply chain, which is extremely difficult and expensive given the depth, complexity, and high capital requirements of the semiconductor supply chain. Now with the US sanctions, market forces are aligned with China's goal of an indigenous semiconductor supply chain. Wang may very well have been right that no amount of subsidies and top-down direction/planning would have been enough, but thanks to the sanctions, the same market forces that led the development of the semiconductor industry in the advanced economies will now help China develop its own industry.
Exactly, when Huawei was blacklisted, it was forced to use domestic suppliers, so Huawei began to invest in these domestic suppliers and send its "foot soldiers" to these companies to ensure that it inserted the management culture and Huawei's quality standards in the DNA of these Chinese companies. and the same goes for SMIC, YMTC and others who do the same, they are forcing Chinese suppliers to meet high standards as high as foreign suppliers. That would not have been possible simply by the Chinese government forcing its will.

US export controls and sanctions are the driving force behind Chinese IT, electronics and semiconductor companies breaking the mistrust that existed before sanctions and export controls and starting to collaborate with each other. They are now testing and buying products from each other more and more and larger companies invest in smaller ones to ensure that the quality standard rises.

I don't know how economics is teached in Taiwan but is pretty weird that he is trying to obfuscate this fact in his rant.
 

GiantPanda

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For an island as small as Taiwan? yes, for a country as big China? is not as impossible as Mr. Wang may think. In fact is already happening and they will expand not just locally but globally.
Also a lot of semiconductors supplier are just companies taking the opportunity that have presented due US export controls, many of these companies are rising private capital. Will all them survive? no, but the ones who do will reap the rewards.


I think more absurd for the politicians in W.D.C to think that they can stop the progress of a country like China and is even more dangerous for Chinese companies to rely on the goodwill US politicians, Chinese companies have no option that to develop a secondary supply chain due US export controls, that doesn't mean everything but means a lot. The rule is, Chinese companies are going to keeping buying from the world as long they are allowed to, specially the most high end stuff, but at soon crap like export controls are impose, you will see the rise of a Chinese company in the same area.


This is something that is been thrown a lot, subsidies, yes there are subsidies and lot BUT if you do your research a lot of the money into the semiconductor industry is increasing coming from private sources, especially from real state investors that they are putting money in the China industrial and service sector. The real state correction and US sanctions has reshuffle China private investment sector to areas that was mainly dominated by state investment. Now the state money is going more to areas were investors avoid like EUV lithography due high risk


To be honest China is basically independent right now, all the technologies are there, there purely domestic fabs processing wafers right now.

No Mr. Wang is the natural market response to US export controls and sanctions, this is not a command from Xi but a natural response of some Chinese companies trying to survive a hostile environment and others trying to take advantage of the situation, as they should.

What Mr. Wang think that a companies like Huawei should do? Just let themselves kill to satisfy the weird cold war fantasies of Tom Cotton? No Chinese companies will put a fight, they will create a secondary supply Chain than then it will integrate itself into global semiconductor supply chain, that is inevitable and is already happening.

I actually found that to be a profoundly stupid article that pretended like China has a better choice. China is doing a complete semicon eco-system not because of some "dream" but because it is the only way to survive and thrive.

This is a national effort to ensure the survival of a critical industry and by extention the future of China's itself. This is something a nation funds until it becomes a success. There is no choice here.

Basically Wang is asking China to simply give up, accept the sanctions and let its semicon industry die. The only reply to that kind of stupidity is to say, "Thank you but please go f$&k yourself with that suicidal advice."
 

tokenanalyst

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The National Integrated Circuit Micro-nano Testing Equipment Industry Metrology and Testing Center (Shanghai) was unveiled​


The Shanghai Municipal Market Supervision Bureau officially established the Shanghai Smart Lighting Industry Metrology and Testing Center and approved the preparations for the establishment of the National Integrated Circuit Micro-nano Testing Equipment Industry Metrology and Testing Center (Shanghai), as well as the high-precision Beidou navigation, new energy cable and other municipal industrial measurement and testing centers.
According to news from Tongji University, the "National Integrated Circuit Micro-nano Testing Equipment Industrial Metrology and Testing Center (Shanghai)" is one of the first industrial metrology and testing centers in the country's integrated circuit field. It is jointly established with Tongji University as the main body and Zhangjiang Laboratory.
According to reports, with the continuous construction and improvement of the industrial measurement and testing center, the center will carry out the research and development and manufacturing of wafer-level nanometer standard materials . This project will promote the completion of the construction of a self-traceable nanometer length measurement technology system dedicated to the integrated circuit industry, that is, to achieve "using your own "Measure your own products", speed up the solution to the pain point problem of "unmeasured, incomplete and inaccurate measurements" of chips, and strongly support the improvement of domestic chip yield rate and quality reliability.

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