Chinese semiconductor industry

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tokenanalyst

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Xsizor said:
Biotech firms are aiding Chinese military?
Hilarious.
Call a spade a spade - it's just attempts to destroy Chinese technological rise under the pretext of 'countering China's military'.

Waiting for further "motions" from US.
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This must break the illusion that some individuals still have within China that for some reason the status quo must be maintained, that China must develop its technological ecosystem slowly like a slug and must continue to depend on the United States.
The list is only going to get longer. This is with Biden who is supposedly a moderate, if Trump wins again 2024-2025 it will be a complete ban on semiconductors, the only way for Chinese electronic companies to survive is by creating their own semiconductor ecosystem because in the end this is not a problem exclusive to Huawei or SMIC. This is going to affect everyone.
 
Xizor

Xizor

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tokenanalyst said:
The woman who is giving away that island semiconductor industry to the U.S. Again, who is going to buy that island made chips if the DPP and TSMC is prostituting their cutting edge technology to the U.S., Japan, Europe? ahhh the same Chinese that they despise so much.
If the Taiwanese people have a sense of pride as they say the have, they should be protesting in the streets on how the DPP Taiwanese government is giving away what it took that island decades to archive.
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Since all that Taiwan has mostly is human resource with process knowledge, they can't do much. Taiwanese process knowledge is built upon Western/ Japanese equipment and standards. What other option does they have other than bend ? I still don't find any core technology that TW provides to semiconductor manufacturer, without which the world will struggle.

One must understand TW's unique position. No other way for TW other than follow diktats. I see no space for maneuvering, none whatsoever that would benefit the populace of that island under current circumstances.
 
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tokenanalyst

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Xsizor said:
Since all that Taiwan has mostly is human resource with process knowledge, they can't do much. Taiwanese process knowledge is built upon Western/ Japanese equipment and standards. What other option does they have other than bend ? I still don't find any core technology that TW provides to semiconductor manufacturer, without which the world will struggle.

One must understand TW's unique position. No other way for TW other than follow diktats. I see no space for maneuvering, none whatsoever that would benefit the populace of that island under current circumstances.
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Not necessary, a lot of equipment and technologies had been develop in harmony between Taiwanese fabs (TSMC) and equipment and software manufacturers from western countries. Without TSMC, ASML wouldn't have grown to the technological giant that is today, the same goes for others semi equipment companies. from my perspective, It was the sweat of Taiwanese Chinese people who created the modern semiconductor industry and the successful fabless model ecosystem of today and its always has been the government policy (especially with the kuomintang) to protect that advantaged position. Now the current government is throwing all away to score political points with their masters in the U.S.
I really hate to talk about politics but i find this a disgrace.
 
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Pkp88

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escobar said:
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The key line is "China-made lithography equipment has not entered wafer mass production lines"; This is a huge weakness in the whole system it's like not controlling oil production in previous generations. It's tough to solve as as they are one of three countries capable of achieving this but the progress has been slow and the ramifications are quite large... You read about advances here and there but if nothing is actually being used in mass production it's pretty bad...
 
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Wangxi

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I'm really starting to wonder if the Chinese leadership is serious about semiconductors
it must be one of the biggest concerns for the development of the country, and China must be ready to invest trillions of dollars if it is necessary.
I hope the US sanctions will be a wake-up call
There has been some progress but it is clearly not enough
 
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tokenanalyst

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I love how selectively people can read a neutral story in a Chinese website and write an article making it look worse than it is. He complete it ignore this part.

According to statistics from the China Electronic Special Equipment Industry Association, 56 major semiconductor equipment manufacturers in mainland China will achieve 24.29 billion yuan in semiconductor equipment sales revenue in 2020, an increase of 38.7% year-on-year; total profits are 5.192 billion yuan, an increase of 80.5% year-on-year. Among them, the total sales revenue of integrated circuit equipment was 9.677 billion yuan, a year-on-year increase of 59.0%.
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That is a huge growth in my opinion. That means they are growing pretty fast.


Pkp88 said:
The key line is "China-made lithography equipment has not entered wafer mass production lines"; This is a huge weakness in the whole system it's like not controlling oil production in previous generations. It's tough to solve as as they are one of three countries capable of achieving this but the progress has been slow and the ramifications are quite large... You read about advances here and there but if nothing is actually being used in mass production it's pretty bad...
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"China-made lithography equipment has not entered wafer mass production lines", I think SMEE 28nm ArfI lithography machines is being tested and verification but not in production (Yet). Another issue is that ASML position in China is too strong for a change, even in China institutions like ICRD, they will be a lot of inertia of moving away from ASML unless the pressure from the U.S. become unbearable.

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Overbom

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Wangxi said:
I'm really starting to wonder if the Chinese leadership is serious about semiconductors
it must be one of the biggest concerns for the development of the country, and China must be ready to invest trillions of dollars if it is necessary.
I hope the US sanctions will be a wake-up call
There has been some progress but it is clearly not enough
Click to expand...
In semiconductors there is a long R&D phase. I expect that between end of 2022 and 2023 we will see massive improvements in the China's semiconductor industry
 
Xizor

Xizor

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tokenanalyst said:
Not necessary, a lot of equipment and technologies had been develop in harmony between Taiwanese fabs (TSMC) and equipment and software manufacturers from western countries. Without TSMC, ASML wouldn't have grown to the technological giant that is today, the same goes for others semi equipment companies. from my perspective, It was the sweat of Taiwanese Chinese people who created the modern semiconductor industry and the successful fabless model ecosystem of today and its always has been the government policy (especially with the kuomintang) to protect that advantaged position. Now the current government is throwing all away to score political points with their masters in the U.S.
I really hate to talk about politics but i find this a disgrace.
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But my point was that this infrastructure or base that Taiwan built only serves to further the reach and depth of foreign technology base. If Tomorrow, Taiwan announced sanctions or export control to the west or Japan, I don't think it could cause significant long term damage. Are there any particularly unique technological inputs from TW towards Global semiconductor fabrication? TSMC sure is special but TSMC can be killed with a POTUS signature.
 
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