Chinese semiconductor industry

Its my opinion that we must try to allow pessimism to take control of this thread. As turn-off as it may sound, this thread can get really high on hot air like a Hot air balloon.

As part of this pessimism, it is important to presume that every breakthrough China makes is not commercially viable ( as in not fit for mass production applications - even if the spokespersons/leakers/sources insist on them being mass production ready ).

Also, it is important to scale back expectations of rapid rise as there is considerable difference between lab success and fab success. Allow the thread to be pessimistic for it improves the quality of the thread. Very often are the readers here taken on a roller coaster ride. When will you learn?

A pessimistic me is still waiting for the 14nm mass production initiation and semiconductor chips from that fab hitting the market.

Huawei has supposedly developed its own 5G RF Chip.

Further confirmation regarding the technical certification of the SMEE 28NM DUVL and had been delivered to downstream enterprises to produce 28nm chips by the end of this year. So @gadgetcool5 @Annihilation98 and @asta hope this answer your constant questioning of China IC progress, being critical is okay we need to be cautious But its tiring to keep repeating the same post over and over again.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

1.6K views1 day ago

According to media reports, the 28nm lithography machine developed by Shanghai Microelectronics has passed the technical certification and can be delivered to downstream enterprises to produce 28nm chips by the end of this year. The 28nm lithography machine developed by Shanghai Microelectronics can be used to manufacture 14nm and more advanced chips through multiple exposure and other process technologies. With the news of the landing of domestic 28nm lithography machine, the Chinese Academy of Sciences developed a new 5nm laser lithography technology was once again turned out by the media hype: after the emergence of 5nm laser lithography technology, China's lithography machine will be expected to break through 5nm, in fact, the Chinese Academy of Sciences mastered this technology as early as July last year, after nearly a year of technical improvements, China took a step to break the monopoly of ASML's lithography machine The first step, the domestic lithography machine is expected to break through 5nm in a short period of time.

ansy1968 said:

Further confirmation regarding the technical certification of the SMEE 28NM DUVL and had been delivered to downstream enterprises to produce 28nm chips by the end of this year. So @gadgetcool5 @Annihilation98 and @asta hope this answer your constant questioning of China IC progress, being critical is okay we need to be cautious But its tiring to keep repeating the same post over and over again.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

1.6K views1 day ago

According to media reports, the 28nm lithography machine developed by Shanghai Microelectronics has passed the technical certification and can be delivered to downstream enterprises to produce 28nm chips by the end of this year. The 28nm lithography machine developed by Shanghai Microelectronics can be used to manufacture 14nm and more advanced chips through multiple exposure and other process technologies. With the news of the landing of domestic 28nm lithography machine, the Chinese Academy of Sciences developed a new 5nm laser lithography technology was once again turned out by the media hype: after the emergence of 5nm laser lithography technology, China's lithography machine will be expected to break through 5nm, in fact, the Chinese Academy of Sciences mastered this technology as early as July last year, after nearly a year of technical improvements, China took a step to break the monopoly of ASML's lithography machine The first step, the domestic lithography machine is expected to break through 5nm in a short period of time.

Click to expand...

Inference -

1. Mass market Dissemination of 28 nm litho machines of DUVL tech hasn't taken place yet.

2. 5nm is seriously considered but no date as of yet. Don't hope for such a leap and it's atleast 5-8 years away.

3. Yet to master 14nm.

It is

WTAN said:

I believe Huawei will wait patiently for the completion of their new FAB in Shanghai before producing the 22nm and 28nm Chips.
The FAB will be owned by Huawei and uses a completely Domestic Production Line and ICRD will operate the Plant.
ICRD is basically a Semiconductor Research Institute established by a certain Shanghai based Foundry.
ICRD has also been doing R&D on EUVL Equipment for many years and will be very helpful when Huawei eventually decides to produce ICs using EUVL.
When the ICs are produced, Huawei's 5G Telecom Equipment Business will be 100% self sufficient and sanction-proof. Huawei can then confidently promote its 5G equipment to customers worldwide without the current supply chain uncertainty.

Sometime in late 2022, when Huawei's Domestic
12-14nm Chip Production Line is ready, Kirin 5G SOCs for Huawei Mobiles will make a comeback.

Click to expand...

Trump's Trade War and America's demonstrated capability to prevent others from selling to Huawei and China what it does not want it does not want sold to Huawei and China have been far greater drivers of domestically industrial policy towards thorough self reliance and thorough localization of supply chains that any policy proclamations and active incentives given by the Chinese State such as Made in China 2025.

Retrospectively, it is incredible how much a company such as Huawei did not give business to domestic parts manufacturers or/and made its own chips within factories in China.

Weaasel said:

It is

Trump's Trade War and America's demonstrated capability to prevent others from selling to Huawei and China what it does not want it does not want sold to Huawei and China have been far greater drivers of domestically industrial policy towards thorough self reliance and thorough localization of supply chains that any policy proclamations and active incentives given by the Chinese State such as Made in China 2025.

Retrospectively, it is incredible how much a company such as Huawei did not give business to domestic parts manufacturers or/and made its own chips within factories in China.

Click to expand...

Total internal sourcing is a deathbell for competitiveness for an electronics / technology company.

One has to understand that China is trying to sell to Global markets that have a preference for standards and Operating systems, architectures set by American companies.

That's why Huawei can't and won't source everything from China. What Huawei, however, could've done ( in hindsight) was create a China specific ecosystem that had standards, architectures etc set by China or non adversarial groups. Ofcourse, it'd not look good in the company annual statements when there is a low return, high R&D component that makes it uncompetitive.

Anyway, what we are seeing here is the same issues that plagued Japan, South Korea and even Europe. IT, today, is a playground where the rules are set by the regimes in California-Redmond-NY.

If someone can breakthrough it is China.

Xsizor said:

Total internal sourcing is a deathbell for competitiveness for an electronics / technology company.

Click to expand...

Nah, the West is about to die (literally), China will become the only market left.

Xsizor said:

Its my opinion that we must try to allow pessimism to take control of this thread. As turn-off as it may sound, this thread can get really high on hot air like a Hot air balloon.

Click to expand...

We have to be realistic.

That is the word.

Being a realist means accepting fact.

The fact is China's demand for the semiconductor chip, is at least 5x times larger than any other single nation in the world. This will not change anytime soon.

This is what we call in economics a captive market.

Go to the movie theater, and buy some expensive popcorn. That snack is not priced competitively, but you're in a captive market. That is the first point.

The second point is all these self-defeating American actions, the tariffs and sanctions. In business, all companies must maintain production, that is what sustains the business. If there is an unreliable supplier who can stop production, you get rid of them. You would be willing to pay more for reliability.

The Americans have proven themselves to be unreliable in IC. A Chinese tech company must have a hole in their head if they want to continue using American parts long term.

When Chinese tech products that are alternatives to American tech products appears, they're gone.

Xsizor said:

Total internal sourcing is a deathbell for competitiveness for an electronics / technology company.

One has to understand that China is trying to sell to Global markets that have a preference for standards and Operating systems, architectures set by American companies.

That's why Huawei can't and won't source everything from China. What Huawei, however, could've done ( in hindsight) was create a China specific ecosystem that had standards, architectures etc set by China or non adversarial groups. Ofcourse, it'd not look good in the company annual statements when there is a low return, high R&D component that makes it uncompetitive.

Click to expand...

Huawei doesn't answer to external investors. Huawei is legally a worker's collective owned by the employees of Huawei so as long as they make enough revenue to cover operational costs including wages, they're OK.

Xsizor said:

Its my opinion that we must try to allow pessimism to take control of this thread. As turn-off as it may sound, this thread can get really high on hot air like a Hot air balloon.

As part of this pessimism, it is important to presume that every breakthrough China makes is not commercially viable ( as in not fit for mass production applications - even if the spokespersons/leakers/sources insist on them being mass production ready ).

Also, it is important to scale back expectations of rapid rise as there is considerable difference between lab success and fab success. Allow the thread to be pessimistic for it improves the quality of the thread. Very often are the readers here taken on a roller coaster ride. When will you learn?

A pessimistic me is still waiting for the 14nm mass production initiation and semiconductor chips from that fab hitting the market.

Click to expand...

Good post about pessimism.

My pessimism would be the time lag between developing the tech and mass producing it/deploying it in numerous fabs/allowing yields to increase/supply ecosystem being able to support the massive demand for IC consumables