Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
From MINEWS I think this is a Mainland publication and what it reported the SMEE 28NM DUVL seems destined to be the savior of China Semiconductor with glowing reports that rattled ASML. Even if they lowered the price, the major FABS like SMIC which was sanction and others will be more discerning in their purchase. All in all its a win for China with current users of ASML may purchase a Cheaper price product as spare parts as the goal is to localized all equipment as soon as possible. My opinion even if ASML lowered its price it will not killed SMEE 28NM DUVL cause the demands are there the current problem is Accessibility and if the technical performance is true as reported mass producing it will be a piece of cake.

A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately "zoomed in"​

2021/07/12 18:07:11

Since the Huawei incident, the actions of domestic semiconductor companies have attracted the attention of people from all walks of life, invisibly adding a lot of pressure to these companies, although the current companies represented by Huawei HiSilicon have achieved significant results in chip research and development. Breakthrough, but in terms of chip manufacturing, China still stays in place, and the problem of stuck necks is very prominent.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in


In fact, in order to solve the chip problem, in the past few years, the state has not only implemented a tax rebate policy, but also increased capital investment in this field. At the same time, many Chinese companies have actively responded to the call of the state and chose to enter the semiconductor field across banks. Under the background of all the efforts of the country, China Semiconductor has also achieved gratifying results. Not long ago, many Chinese companies have expanded their mature chip process capacity to meet the consumer demand of the domestic market.
Recently , Shanghai Microelectronics has reported that it has overcome the key technology of 28nm lithography machine. This means that China Semiconductor will no longer be controlled by others in the lithography machine equipment , and can buy cheaper ones. Domestic equipment.

A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in

Shanghai Microelectronics has been deeply involved in the field of lithography machines for many years, and the 90nm lithography machine has achieved mass production. This time it has made a breakthrough in 28nm lithography machine technology. The most concerned is when it will be mass-produced. Although Shanghai Microelectronics Electronics did not respond to this question positively, but according to industry sources, Shanghai Microelectronics 28nm is expected to be delivered by the end of this year.

It is worth mentioning that when the Shanghai Microelectronics team visited foreign lithography machine companies in the early years, they were ridiculed by foreign experts, saying that even if they gave Chinese companies drawings, they could not make lithography machines. This time, Shanghai Microelectronics undoubtedly They slapped these foreign experts in the face severely.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in


Seeing that Chinese companies have frequently reported good news in lithography equipment, ASML, as the world's largest lithography machine manufacturer, can't sit still. China's lithography machine market is large, and ASML is naturally unwilling to give up this “fat”. After ASML expressed its willingness to cooperate with Chinese companies, ASML issued a statement again recently stating that it will release restrictions on the export of lithography machines to China.
In addition, in order to enhance product competitiveness, ASML did not hesitate to lower the price of 28nm lithography machines, and seems to be ready to fight a price war in the Chinese market. ASML announced this news, and Shanghai Microelectronics announced the 28nm lithography machine technology a few days apart, also in order to stabilize domestic cooperative customers.
After all, once a Chinese company masters the production technology of lithography machines independently, ASML still wants to be a rare product in China, it will not be so easy, because Chinese manufacturing has multiple local advantages in price, then ASML's dominance is likely to be shaken by Chinese companies. . There are also netizens who believe that ASML's move is clearly suppressing Chinese lithography machine companies.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in


However, ASML is intent on the fact that ASML exports 28nm lithography machines to China, which will promote and negatively affect the development of China's semiconductors.
On the one hand, ASML's 28nm lithography machine is in the echelon in this field. Although Shanghai Microelectronics has mastered 28nm technology, it has not yet achieved mass production. Therefore, many domestic 28nm lithography machines are still imported.
ASML actively chose to embrace the Chinese market this time, not only to fill the shortcomings of Chinese semiconductors in this regard, but also to reduce the purchase costs of related companies in 28nm lithography machines, and even production costs. After all, who is willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to take risks. What about a research and development project that is uncertain of success?


From the perspective of negative impact, ASML's low-end lithography machine enters the Chinese market on a large scale, which is bound to hit the Chinese local industry chain that has been exploring for many years in the field of lithography machine. The production and research and development enthusiasm of the domestic lithography machine supply chain will be greatly reduced. , The research and development progress of advanced lithography machines will also be delayed, and once ASML has a full monopoly on the domestic market, China's lithography machine industry chain will face a long-term dilemma of being constrained by others.
According to relevant experts, importing ASML 28nm lithography machine is the best choice in the short term. After all, ASML has developed a 28nm lithography machine as early as the beginning of 2000. Now ASML's 28nm lithography machine, whether in the production process or In terms of stability, and even price and cost advantages, it has surpassed the lithography machine of the same technology produced in China.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in

However, China's lithography machine supply chain can't wait to die. It still needs to continue in-depth research, because ASML is not invincible. You can watch TV chips for the same example. As early as 2003, Hisense launched the first Chinese-made TV chip. .

Although the technical content is not as good as foreign products, it broke the monopoly and allowed foreign competitors to choose to cut prices in the Chinese market. At the same time, it also led the rise of domestic TV chips. As everyone knows, Huawei HiSilicon later became a Chinese TV. The chip's top spot.

In general, China cannot give up independent research and development, whether in the field of lithography machines or in the field of chips. As long as the development is successful and continuous improvement, Chinese semiconductors can completely get rid of foreign companies and take the initiative in the global electronics industry chain.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
I got the feeling that ASML may had given SMIC guarantee of technical support, sanction proof supply and cheaper price on their current purchase of $1.2 billion DUVL equipment, it also had given compensation for the undelivered EUVL that was promises and purchase long ago. Is a sign of good faith and goodwill to maintain their business relationship, and from SMIC part being pragmatic (need to reimburse those deposit payment) I think this will be the last order ASML may get, having endure sanction and restriction no respecting FAB will allow itself hostage for the second time. If an alternative exist especially a domestic one , they will purchase it right away even if the performance is not comparable.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
From MINEWS I think this is a Mainland publication and what it reported the SMEE 28NM DUVL seems destined to be the savior of China Semiconductor with glowing reports that rattled ASML. Even if they lowered the price, the major FABS like SMIC which was sanction and others will be more discerning in their purchase. All in all its a win for China with current users of ASML may purchase a Cheaper price product as spare parts as the goal is to localized all equipment as soon as possible. My opinion even if ASML lowered its price it will not killed SMEE 28NM DUVL cause the demands are there the current problem is Accessibility and if the technical performance is true as reported mass producing it will be a piece of cake.

A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately "zoomed in"​

2021/07/12 18:07:11

Since the Huawei incident, the actions of domestic semiconductor companies have attracted the attention of people from all walks of life, invisibly adding a lot of pressure to these companies, although the current companies represented by Huawei HiSilicon have achieved significant results in chip research and development. Breakthrough, but in terms of chip manufacturing, China still stays in place, and the problem of stuck necks is very prominent.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in


In fact, in order to solve the chip problem, in the past few years, the state has not only implemented a tax rebate policy, but also increased capital investment in this field. At the same time, many Chinese companies have actively responded to the call of the state and chose to enter the semiconductor field across banks. Under the background of all the efforts of the country, China Semiconductor has also achieved gratifying results. Not long ago, many Chinese companies have expanded their mature chip process capacity to meet the consumer demand of the domestic market.
Recently , Shanghai Microelectronics has reported that it has overcome the key technology of 28nm lithography machine. This means that China Semiconductor will no longer be controlled by others in the lithography machine equipment , and can buy cheaper ones. Domestic equipment.

A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in

Shanghai Microelectronics has been deeply involved in the field of lithography machines for many years, and the 90nm lithography machine has achieved mass production. This time it has made a breakthrough in 28nm lithography machine technology. The most concerned is when it will be mass-produced. Although Shanghai Microelectronics Electronics did not respond to this question positively, but according to industry sources, Shanghai Microelectronics 28nm is expected to be delivered by the end of this year.

It is worth mentioning that when the Shanghai Microelectronics team visited foreign lithography machine companies in the early years, they were ridiculed by foreign experts, saying that even if they gave Chinese companies drawings, they could not make lithography machines. This time, Shanghai Microelectronics undoubtedly They slapped these foreign experts in the face severely.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in


Seeing that Chinese companies have frequently reported good news in lithography equipment, ASML, as the world's largest lithography machine manufacturer, can't sit still. China's lithography machine market is large, and ASML is naturally unwilling to give up this “fat”. After ASML expressed its willingness to cooperate with Chinese companies, ASML issued a statement again recently stating that it will release restrictions on the export of lithography machines to China.
In addition, in order to enhance product competitiveness, ASML did not hesitate to lower the price of 28nm lithography machines, and seems to be ready to fight a price war in the Chinese market. ASML announced this news, and Shanghai Microelectronics announced the 28nm lithography machine technology a few days apart, also in order to stabilize domestic cooperative customers.
After all, once a Chinese company masters the production technology of lithography machines independently, ASML still wants to be a rare product in China, it will not be so easy, because Chinese manufacturing has multiple local advantages in price, then ASML's dominance is likely to be shaken by Chinese companies. . There are also netizens who believe that ASML's move is clearly suppressing Chinese lithography machine companies.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in


However, ASML is intent on the fact that ASML exports 28nm lithography machines to China, which will promote and negatively affect the development of China's semiconductors.
On the one hand, ASML's 28nm lithography machine is in the echelon in this field. Although Shanghai Microelectronics has mastered 28nm technology, it has not yet achieved mass production. Therefore, many domestic 28nm lithography machines are still imported.
ASML actively chose to embrace the Chinese market this time, not only to fill the shortcomings of Chinese semiconductors in this regard, but also to reduce the purchase costs of related companies in 28nm lithography machines, and even production costs. After all, who is willing to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to take risks. What about a research and development project that is uncertain of success?


From the perspective of negative impact, ASML's low-end lithography machine enters the Chinese market on a large scale, which is bound to hit the Chinese local industry chain that has been exploring for many years in the field of lithography machine. The production and research and development enthusiasm of the domestic lithography machine supply chain will be greatly reduced. , The research and development progress of advanced lithography machines will also be delayed, and once ASML has a full monopoly on the domestic market, China's lithography machine industry chain will face a long-term dilemma of being constrained by others.
According to relevant experts, importing ASML 28nm lithography machine is the best choice in the short term. After all, ASML has developed a 28nm lithography machine as early as the beginning of 2000. Now ASML's 28nm lithography machine, whether in the production process or In terms of stability, and even price and cost advantages, it has surpassed the lithography machine of the same technology produced in China.
A bigger crisis is coming!The domestic 28nm lithography machine just showed the light, ASML immediately zoomed in

However, China's lithography machine supply chain can't wait to die. It still needs to continue in-depth research, because ASML is not invincible. You can watch TV chips for the same example. As early as 2003, Hisense launched the first Chinese-made TV chip. .

Although the technical content is not as good as foreign products, it broke the monopoly and allowed foreign competitors to choose to cut prices in the Chinese market. At the same time, it also led the rise of domestic TV chips. As everyone knows, Huawei HiSilicon later became a Chinese TV. The chip's top spot.

In general, China cannot give up independent research and development, whether in the field of lithography machines or in the field of chips. As long as the development is successful and continuous improvement, Chinese semiconductors can completely get rid of foreign companies and take the initiative in the global electronics industry chain.
Just as expected.......ASML will attempt to Dump its DUVL in the China market at very low prices in an attempt to hurt the sales of SMEE.
But eventually in the long-term, most Chinese FABs will dump the ASML product and switch to the SMEE DUVL which is Sanction-Free.
SMIC should demand that ASML fully support its production of 7nm ICs as part of any purchase deal for any additional DUVL from ASML.
I really hope SMIC did that with its recent purchase from ASML.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just as expected.......ASML will attempt to Dump its DUVL in the China market at very low prices in an attempt to hurt the sales of SMEE.
But eventually in the long-term, most Chinese FABs will dump the ASML product and switch to the SMEE DUVL which is Sanction-Free.
SMIC should demand that ASML fully support its production of 7nm ICs as part of any purchase deal for any additional DUVL from ASML.
I really hope SMIC did that with its recent purchase from ASML.
@WTAN Sir, my gut feeling is they had, why would SMIC risk production the N+1 and said it publicly and also the trialed production of N+2 late this year. The way I see it is that the SMIC had the confidence that the 14nm domestic line will be online next year and need to rush their 7nm program so not to be left behind tech wise and also the prevailing market condition.

And risking the 7nm production we can see and test ASML resolved to honor its obligation, It will be a do or die moment for them if they follow Washington diktat.
 
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Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
This chip shortage will turn out to be silver lining for domestic Chip industry. A whole category of chip is now being domesticated specially auto related chip

Due to COVID-19 and disruptions to global supply chains, the global chip shortage has taken a toll on various industries, especially automobiles. Some experts and industry professionals have predicted that chip shortages may last into the first quarter of next year. But they also say it's worth watching how the crisis could bring about more opportunities.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
This chip shortage will turn out to be silver lining for domestic Chip industry. A whole category of chip is now being domesticated specially auto related chip

Due to COVID-19 and disruptions to global supply chains, the global chip shortage has taken a toll on various industries, especially automobiles. Some experts and industry professionals have predicted that chip shortages may last into the first quarter of next year. But they also say it's worth watching how the crisis could bring about more opportunities.
@Hendrik_2000 bro factor in the sanction and restriction. The current political atmosphere implies as China tech company develop a tech replacement from its US rival it will be automatically sanction. That cold war mindset and xenophobia is the key for the development of China Semis and its goal of self sufficiency. Facing an adversity especially a powerful one is a good motivator for nation building and development.
 

krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
I got the feeling that ASML may had given SMIC guarantee of technical support, sanction proof supply and cheaper price on their current purchase of $1.2 billion DUVL equipment, it also had given compensation for the undelivered EUVL that was promises and purchase long ago. Is a sign of good faith and goodwill to maintain their business relationship, and from SMIC part being pragmatic (need to reimburse those deposit payment) I think this will be the last order ASML may get, having endure sanction and restriction no respecting FAB will allow itself hostage for the second time. If an alternative exist especially a domestic one , they will purchase it right away even if the performance is not comparable.
Imo, ASML and all other non-China semicon equipment and materials companies have already lost the China market despite whatever purchases they will be making in the short-term. ASML purchases are a tactical business decision. There is no long-term strategic business future for non-China semiconductor equipment and materials in China after the US government was able to successfully engineer global sanctions. Then they doubled down and then tripled down. The trust is completely broken, it's too late. SMIC is just buying equipment they need to ramp up near term production until domestic equipment is ready. Rock bottom ASML prices might be designed to harm SMEE, but SMEE won't ramp up production enough for a while anyways. This benefits the domestic fabs while not affecting SMEE that much since domestic fabs will buy domestic equipment no matter what just to hedge their bets.

Once equipment and materials are ready, you will start seeing a steady and sustained decline of all foreign semiconductor equipment & materials. This will continue for years as China's equipment quality improves until market share is dominated or even monopolized within China by China companies, mark my words.
 
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