Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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Yes, this latest 14nm FAB of SMIC mainly uses foreign equipment. The Americans overlooked the fact that the equipment and materials supplied to SMIC to produce 14nm Chips can also be used to produce 7nm Chips with minimal changes.

Fortunately with the Indigenous 14nm Production Line being rapidly developed and tested, locally made 7nm Chips built with a Indigenous Production Line may just be around the corner.
@WTAN Sir from the statement below, the SMIC purchase of ASML DUVL may include NXT 2050i? if yes then the possibility of 5nm chip can be produce? with the relevant equipment can be sourced locally? and most of it is under research with possible incremental improvement of SMEE 28NM DUVL or wait for the EUVL?

However, China still faces many difficulties in the research and development of 5nm chip technology. On the one hand, the restrictions of the United States have not been fundamentally lifted, resulting in the fact that it is still difficult to obtain top-level lithography machines in China. On the other hand, the 5nm chip itself is also a huge technical challenge, much more difficult than 7nm. However, in the face of multiple pressures and difficulties, the country has also launched the 5nm chip process research and development, and strives to get through the complete process flow before the end of 2021, and then move to the experimental production stage.
 

krautmeister

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An interesting study by Mathieu Duchâtel, Director of the Asia Program from Institut Montaigne. This is a good summary of the China-US semiconductor tech war dynamic. Its conclusions and recommendations are close to what we've seen the US and EU actually end up implementing. Overall, a good summary of the global semiconductor industry with a few critical errors imo.

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"Looking ahead, the power of Chinese internet platforms like Alibaba, Baidu
and Tencent and their business growth into cloud, AI, the Internet of Things
and systems for autonomous vehicles will be a powerful driver for the further
growth of Chinese IC design"

"Changxin: the company signed sales contracts for its new DRAM products and could supply up to 4% of the world's DRAM capacity – essentially on the Chinese domestic market – by the end of the year49. Changxin uses 19-nanometer technology, compared to 14 nanometers for the world's leading memory companies."

"But there are two critical bottlenecks that China needs to overcome to pass the 7-nanometer manufacturing hurdle: a steady supply of EDA tools, and extreme ultraviolet lithography equipment. Dependence on EDA is a potentially fatal weakness for the Chinese semiconductor industry in case the US escalates the technology war."

"Chinese EDA developers find themselves excluded from the virtuous circle of innovation by operating mainly inside their domestic ecosystem."

"Even if two institutes of the Chinese Academy of Sciences have research programs on EUV technology, Chinese contract foundries will not be able to develop 7 nm nodes if export controls prevent ASML from selling them advanced EUV machines."

"The Chinese industry has been discussing opensource alternatives to Arm architecture for years. Arm’s architecture is open for many interfaces, and the open-source space is increasing, but most industry sources see no credible sign that open source constitutes a comprehensive alternative in case Arm architecture is targeted by US restrictions."

"But China’s vulnerabilities remain easily exploitable. As underscored by a scholar from the Chinese Academy of Sciences: “Obviously, the most prominent shortcoming restricting China’s technological innovation and economic development is that the core technology is not in our own hands and we are facing a serious bottleneck problem. Even if we benefit from the global division of labor thanks to our comparative advantages, we still need to have control over core technologies."
 
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krautmeister

Junior Member
Registered Member
An interesting study by Mathieu Duchâtel, Director of the Asia Program from Institut Montaigne. This is a good summary of the China-US semiconductor tech war dynamic. Its conclusions and recommendations are close to what we've seen the US and EU actually end up implementing. Overall, a good summary of the global semiconductor industry with a few critical errors imo.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!



"Looking ahead, the power of Chinese internet platforms like Alibaba, Baidu
and Tencent and their business growth into cloud, AI, the Internet of Things
and systems for autonomous vehicles will be a powerful driver for the further
growth of Chinese IC design"


"Changxin: the company signed sales contracts for its new DRAM products and could supply up to 4% of the world's DRAM capacity – essentially on the Chinese domestic market – by the end of the year49. Changxin uses 19-nanometer technology, compared to 14 nanometers for the world's leading memory companies."

"But there are two critical bottlenecks that China needs to overcome to pass the 7-nanometer manufacturing hurdle: a steady supply of EDA tools, and extreme ultraviolet lithography equipment. Dependence on EDA is a potentially fatal weakness for the Chinese semiconductor industry in case the US escalates the technology war."

"Chinese EDA developers find themselves excluded from the virtuous circle of innovation by operating mainly inside their domestic ecosystem."

"Even if two institutes of the Chinese Academy of Sciences have research programs on EUV technology, Chinese contract foundries will not be able to develop 7 nm nodes if export controls prevent ASML from selling them advanced EUV machines."

"The Chinese industry has been discussing opensource alternatives to Arm architecture for years. Arm’s architecture is open for many interfaces, and the open-source space is increasing, but most industry sources see no credible sign that open source constitutes a comprehensive alternative in case Arm architecture is targeted by US restrictions."

"But China’s vulnerabilities remain easily exploitable. As underscored by a scholar from the Chinese Academy of Sciences: “Obviously, the most prominent shortcoming restricting China’s technological innovation and economic development is that the core technology is not in our own hands and we are facing a serious bottleneck problem. Even if we benefit from the global division of labor thanks to our comparative advantages, we still need to have control over core technologies."
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
@WTAN Sir from the statement below, the SMIC purchase of ASML DUVL may include NXT 2050i? if yes then the possibility of 5nm chip can be produce? with the relevant equipment can be sourced locally? and most of it is under research with possible incremental improvement of SMEE 28NM DUVL or wait for the EUVL?

However, China still faces many difficulties in the research and development of 5nm chip technology. On the one hand, the restrictions of the United States have not been fundamentally lifted, resulting in the fact that it is still difficult to obtain top-level lithography machines in China. On the other hand, the 5nm chip itself is also a huge technical challenge, much more difficult than 7nm. However, in the face of multiple pressures and difficulties, the country has also launched the 5nm chip process research and development, and strives to get through the complete process flow before the end of 2021, and then move to the experimental production stage.
I am not sure if SMIC actually managed to get hold of the 2050i.
Apparently the 2050i has performance/overlay accuracy similar to earlier models of the ASML EUVL which was used to produce 5nm/7nm ICs by TSMC.
So yes, if SMIC managed to get hold of the 2050i, it could eventually produce 5nm Chips but it would cost more to produce.
Even the latest Nikon DUVL claims to be able to produce 5nm Chips.
Alternatively they could wait for improved Models of the SMEE DUVL or wait for the EUVL.
ICRD is already doing EUVL Research at the Shanghai Synchrotron so there is process R&D going on.
This is to prepare for the coming of the EUVL.
Experimental production of 5nm ICs in 2022 seems very ambitious and means there is some production plan of some sort in the near future.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
TSMC under US pressure over expansion at China fab

@Wangxi bro why not form a separate subsidiary company and incorporated it in China then buy a SMEE 28NM DUVL and start producing the 28nm chips. Win win for both side. If they want to make it discreet then seek one of their former employee working in China to start a company and be a silent investor. If they had the balls and are serious then there's more than one way to skin a cat.
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
If TSMC cant even manage such a low tech fab then Chinese authorities should just ban it from creating any new fabs.

If they are going to act like US puppets then it should just gen banned
No, that is what US would want.

Keep a door open.

This is a game played by years and fraction of margins, grinding away until the cataclysmic collapse.
why not form a separate subsidiary company and incorporated it in China then buy a SMEE 28NM DUVL and start producing the 28nm chips. Win win for both side.
Do you really think its that easy?
 

jfcarli

Junior Member
Registered Member
No, that is what US would want.

Keep a door open.

This is a game played by years and fraction of margins, grinding away until the cataclysmic collapse.

Do you really think its that easy?
Legally, it is not that difficult. It basically depends on how much you want.

You can always hide ownership through off shore lawyers, fiscal havens, etc...

Where there is a will, there is a way.
 
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