Chinese semiconductor industry

krautmeister said:

Agreed. However, once the first domestic DUV immersion lithography machines are released, tariffs should be immediately implemented once production of such lithography machines have ramped up. I've stated in the past that I believe China will not achieve its most critical domestic semiconductor equipment, materials and production goals until sometime from 2026 onwards. Until that time, China will be in constant danger of having its high tech industries threatened with heavy handed sanctions or the nuclear option of a total semiconductor ban. The question is, what will happen once China has DUV lithography machines capable of mass producing 14nm nodes or even 7nm nodes at scale? Do you really believe the Americans would allow this given that they have already sanctioned SMIC from selling to Huawei and others on their entity list, as well as enforcing a global ban of <=16nm semiconductor equipment sales to China? No, it is almost a given that they will triple down what they have already doubled down on. They will use their power to force owners of not only ASML but also Nikon and Canon lithography equipment from producing for anybody on their entity list and any new entrants they deem a "threat" to their tech supremacy. China fabs who buy Nikon semiconductor equipment will be banned from selling their semiconductors to China companies just as ASML equipment owners are banned right now from selling to those on the entity list.

It doesn't matter if China achieves greater semiconductor IC self-sufficiency if it is built on foreign semiconductor equipment and materials. This would be a hollow victory because when you lack the core technologies such equipment and materials rest on, the rug can be pulled out from under China at any time. Much better to continue importing needed semiconductors now just as China has been doing for the last past decades and gain a truly independent and sanction proof domestic semiconductor industry in the next few years. If the last few years have taught us anything, it is that you cannot trust the Americans and neither it's closest allies, especially the 5-eyes.

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WTAN said:

Good Article Weig2000.
There are now quite a number of articles out there already confirming the 14nm Production.
Looks like much of the Semi Equipment and Materials for 14nm have been in R&D and are now almost ready.
The interesting part about this article is that it confirms that trial production of 7nm ICs did indeed take place in April at SMIC. This confirms what Liang Mong Song mentioned last year.
Even more interesting is that if things go well, mass production of 7nm ICs will take place by the end of the year or early next year.
Note that this is happening despite the US embargo on materials and machinery for production of ICs under 14nm node.
This also probably confirms that production of 7nm ICs is possible using the equipment in the 14nm FAB at SMIC.
So looks like the US Embargo has failed to stop 7nm IC Production in China.
It is indeed all too late as the Boat has left the Port already.

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voyager1 said:

I already said how this wouldnt be allowed and that it would be a waste of time.

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The free lunch of Chinese companies easily getting advanced tech from the West is over. Time for real R&D

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voyager1 said:

We all knew that since 2010, however China is addicted to dollars and cant get enough of them. Even with all these sanctions and the US attacking it, China loves the green buck

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^^lol these clowns

Even with their BRI they are still hopeless.

I hope I wont hear China whining when(not if) US confiscates Chinese dollar holdings and sanction them from using any of their dollars.

"Who could have known that our biggest enemy would sanction us from using its currency?......"

They fully deserve it
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Kancil said:

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manqiangrexue said:

The best shot at overthrowing the dollar is the first shot; it has to be calculated and decisive, second and third chances are far less effective and difficult to find. So try doing it prematurely and your economy will suffer with everyone laughing at your face full of mud.

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lkcl says:

Jim: there seems to be a misunderstanding about OpenPOWER, here. the OpenPOWER initiative was started internally and quietly many years ago (almost a decade), however to ensure that things were done correctly (not least because IBM is involved and has huge responsibilities to its Supercomputing customers), it just took a very long time. So long in fact that ironically the RISC-V initiative appeared to be first!
Thanks in part to that, with RISC-V announcing its existence before OpenPOWER, the “limelight” has fallen on RISC-V, yet there are areas where the lack of proper thought, consideration, review, and rejection of constructive feedback has led to conflict and mistakes in the establishment and ongoing running of RISC-V. The patent indemnification is not properly adequate, for example. This is an area where IBM’s two decades of experience and access to excellent lawyers shows through: OpenPOWER implementors gain the backing of IBM’s absolutely massive patent portfolio, and the EULA is properly designed to reflect that.
Another critical area – where Bruce does not have the correct information and has given you (and readers) an incorrect perspective – is that the OpenPOWER Foundation permits anyone to present Extensions to the ISA, even without having to join the Foundation. Eighteen months of reasonable in-good-faith and publicly documented enquiries to the RISC-V Foundation as to how to go about the same process were completely ignored, in direct violation of the responsibilities of a Trademark Holder, which is extremely serious.
Now, it turns out that “outsiders” (non-OPF Members) will not be able to participate in the review process by the OpenPOWER ISA Working Group (they will not be invited to the meeting), however at least they can submit the Extension. By contrast: RISC-V directly prevents and prohibits Extensions from being submitted without also joining the RISC-V Foundation.
This may not seem like it is a big deal, but it is actually a serious problem for certain classes of Business. Imagine that there is a Business which has, as its fundamental Business Objectives, a promise to its customers to engage in “Full Transparency”. This is absolutely critical for example in crytpo-currencies, where full audit and review of all source code and mathematics is essential and de-facto the norm.
With the processes and procedures and much more being entirely closed and secretive, to join the RISC-V Foundation just to submit Extensions would risk such a business being also accused of engaging in secrecy, fundamentally undermining the trust of its customers even before it has released a product. This is a serious conflict of interest!
By contrast although it is proceeding slowly, the OpenPOWER Foundation is listening to constructive feedback, and accepting the responsibility of engaging with outsiders with different perspectives and experience.
In other words, OpenPOWER is more inclusive of people from diverse backgrounds.
Combined with the existing stability of the OpenPOWER ecosystem, thanks to the pedigree and experience of its decades-long members including IBM, this is an extremely powerful combination.

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bettydice said:

On this forum often mentioned are RISC-V and Loongson. There seem to be other open Instruction Set Architectures (ISA) too. Is RISC-V the best and right choice as an open ISA compared to the others?
I've read a comment comparing RISC-V and OpenPOWER. What do you think?

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