Chinese semiconductor industry

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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
You said its time for china to decouple from US technology. It seems to suggest that china should start the decoupling ASAP. Unless you wrote it like this "china should try to decouple from US technology gradually"
Well, I would like to start the decoupling ASAP.

However business interests and the bureaucratic machine are slowing down the decoupling. Now that Xi is so powerful I am sure he can command the officials to move fast, however by their nature all these agencies can take time to ramp up.

Business interests are another thing altogether. The Trump sanctions woke them up, however they still didn't change a lot. Now with the Biden continuing the sanction game and with Xi himself pushing for it, they are changing course but there are still interests and a lot of dependencies on US IP that cant change overnight
 

Kazuo Ken

New Member
Registered Member
Patience.

Decoupling is a slow process that happens over time, with economic decoupling that is always the case. It will take time to design out all American components.

Huawei has mostly done that in their cell phones and base stations.

Political decoupling can be done at a snap of the fingers.

This is where political decoupling and economic decoupling do not match, they are two different processes.

All it seems like what is happening is China decoupling at its own pace.

For the Americans, the government want a decoupling, corporations do not.
This is the right thinking here. Some people here think it should happen ASAP without taken into consideration the weakness that is still present. Unless china finally achieve the level that they are sure can compete with US technology then you can say its time for decoupling.
 

Kazuo Ken

New Member
Registered Member
Well, I would like to start the decoupling ASAP.

However business interests and the bureaucratic machine are slowing down the decoupling. Now that Xi is so powerful I am sure he can command the officials to move fast, however by their nature all these agencies can take time to ramp up.

Business interests are another thing altogether. The Trump sanctions woke them up, however they still didn't change a lot. Now with the Biden continuing the sanction game and with Xi himself pushing for it, they are changing course but there are still interests and a lot of dependencies on US IP that cant change overnight
It because you're being unrealistic here.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I know little about semiconductors. I read a lot of optimism and breakthroughs on the Chinese side on the road to being self-sufficient and I hope it's true. I read how the US wants to stop China from achieving independence. It's not because China will place some insidious programming in those chips to scare people from buying it. They don't have to buy it. It's because they want to make all the money from technology. Money is the root of everything they want to control. China bought 60% of the world's chips before US bans. You think they want to lose 60% of the money they make that gives them control? The ban is about holding chips to China hostage so they can make demands to change China where they have more control over China. Everything they do against China is to achieve this level of control. Even genocide is just an excuse. The biggest Islamophobes on the planet care about Muslims being oppressed? Genocide is the most serious human rights charge one can make yet where are these self-anointed champions of humanity and their armies invading China to stop genocide? They don't even break diplomatic and economic relations with a genocidal regime which is the least they could do. All because they're hanging on what money they're making now. It's a big gamble for the West based on believing non-white people don't have the intellect to do anything, especially technological, themselves but even they know that's more wishful thinking because then they wouldn't have to try to stop China's plans for independence. It's over for them when China can develop it themselves. Bill Maher go a lot attention in the MSM for his editorial over silly people. Even some notorious members in here expose they're silly people because they think even if China can make their own chips, somehow the West has to accept them in order for it to considered successful. It's a no-brainer what the West's answer is going to be. The only thing that matters is that it works.

The amazing thing about China achieving independence does nothing against the West... that isn't theirs in the first place. The West doesn't have to the right to make money from everyone else. The West doesn't have a right to control everything. They believe it but they won't say it out loud because they know the world will turn against them. China can sell their chips to whoever they want. It's like Obama's argument to the world to not be involved with China's AIIB. He charges China will have less restrictions for countries who take loans. Since when do countries that want loans want more conditions placed on themselves in order to get it? This is America thinking everyone else is dumb because they just have to suggest a negative connotation in general to get everyone to avoid it.

The less money the West makes, the less they can do with what they already have. China bought 60% of world's chips means everyone's cut in the West is 60% less now. Production costs go up because China is no longer a part of their chain meaning smaller profit margins. They have less money to spend or they have to raise prices in order to make up their losses. China comes in with a cheaper alternative and electronics companies will buy because they want larger profit margins. If they don't, competitors will buy and then they go bankrupt because their products are too expensive and can't compete. That's how the West's own capitalist market principles work.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Doubt -

Some members say China has fully Indigenous 28nm fabs. But what about EDA software of these fabs? How can fabs be Indigenous without EDA software? Is there a domestic supplier in the EDA segment?
All eda produce a final binary output called gdsII. Fab independent. I mentioned before.
Just like PC board design , all produced a fab independent Gerber file for production.

Fab depends on the type of softwares is ridiculous.

Some of those western media writers are tech ignorant.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
I know little about semiconductors. I read a lot of optimism and breakthroughs on the Chinese side on the road to being self-sufficient and I hope it's true. I read how the US wants to stop China from achieving independence. It's not because China will place some insidious programming in those chips to scare people from buying it. They don't have to buy it. It's because they want to make all the money from technology. Money is the root of everything they want to control. China bought 60% of the world's chips before US bans. You think they want to lose 60% of the money they make that gives them control? The ban is about holding chips to China hostage so they can make demands to change China where they have more control over China. Everything they do against China is to achieve this level of control. Even genocide is just an excuse. The biggest Islamophobes on the planet care about Muslims being oppressed? Genocide is the most serious human rights charge one can make yet where are these self-anointed champions of humanity and their armies invading China to stop genocide? They don't even break diplomatic and economic relations with a genocidal regime which is the least they could do. All because they're hanging on what money they're making now. It's a big gamble for the West based on believing non-white people don't have the intellect to do anything, especially technological, themselves but even they know that's more wishful thinking because then they wouldn't have to try to stop China's plans for independence. It's over for them when China can develop it themselves. Bill Maher go a lot attention in the MSM for his editorial over silly people. Even some notorious members in here expose they're silly people because they think even if China can make their own chips, somehow the West has to accept them in order for it to considered successful. It's a no-brainer what the West's answer is going to be. The only thing that matters is that it works.

The amazing thing about China achieving independence does nothing against the West... that isn't theirs in the first place. The West doesn't have to the right to make money from everyone else. The West doesn't have a right to control everything. They believe it but they won't say it out loud because they know the world will turn against them. China can sell their chips to whoever they want. It's like Obama's argument to the world to not be involved with China's AIIB. He charges China will have less restrictions for countries who take loans. Since when do countries that want loans want more conditions placed on themselves in order to get it? This is America thinking everyone else is dumb because they just have to suggest a negative connotation in general to get everyone to avoid it.

The less money the West makes, the less they can do with what they already have. China bought 60% of world's chips means everyone's cut in the West is 60% less now. Production costs go up because China is no longer a part of their chain meaning smaller profit margins. They have less money to spend or they have to raise prices in order to make up their losses. China comes in with a cheaper alternative and electronics companies will buy because they want larger profit margins. If they don't, competitors will buy and then they go bankrupt because their products are too expensive and can't compete. That's how the West's own capitalist market principles work.
I agree but that whole thing is China complaining. The US obviously has the right to block its own IP from helping China.

If China has complains, tough luck, maybe they should have made their own IP.

Thats why I dont care too much of the US reasons for blocking chips. The IP is from US, so naturally the US has full control of it and it can choose to which country it will sell.

The best thing China can do now, is sit down, keep its head down, completate why it stupidly allowed itself to depend on US IP and then start working to fix this mistake.

This is all China's fault for not having its own semiconductor IP
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I agree but that whole thing is China complaining. The US obviously has the right to block its own IP from helping China.

If China has complains, tough luck, maybe they should have made their own IP.

Thats why I dont care too much of the US reasons for blocking chips. The IP is from US, so naturally the US has full control of it and it can choose to which country it will sell.

The best thing China can do now, is sit down, keep its head down, completate why it stupidly allowed itself to depend on US IP and then start working to fix this mistake.

This is all China's fault for not having its own semiconductor IP
I never said China wasn't complaining. Why is the US complaining? They stopped selling chips to China. Why are they worried over Chinese moving to independently make chips. If they think Chinese are too dumb, why are they worried and complaining? It's because the goal was thinking China would submit to US demands not go independent.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
I know little about semiconductors. I read a lot of optimism and breakthroughs on the Chinese side on the road to being self-sufficient and I hope it's true. I read how the US wants to stop China from achieving independence. It's not because China will place some insidious programming in those chips to scare people from buying it. They don't have to buy it. It's because they want to make all the money from technology. Money is the root of everything they want to control. China bought 60% of the world's chips before US bans. You think they want to lose 60% of the money they make that gives them control? The ban is about holding chips to China hostage so they can make demands to change China where they have more control over China. Everything they do against China is to achieve this level of control. Even genocide is just an excuse. The biggest Islamophobes on the planet care about Muslims being oppressed? Genocide is the most serious human rights charge one can make yet where are these self-anointed champions of humanity and their armies invading China to stop genocide? They don't even break diplomatic and economic relations with a genocidal regime which is the least they could do. All because they're hanging on what money they're making now. It's a big gamble for the West based on believing non-white people don't have the intellect to do anything, especially technological, themselves but even they know that's more wishful thinking because then they wouldn't have to try to stop China's plans for independence. It's over for them when China can develop it themselves. Bill Maher go a lot attention in the MSM for his editorial over silly people. Even some notorious members in here expose they're silly people because they think even if China can make their own chips, somehow the West has to accept them in order for it to considered successful. It's a no-brainer what the West's answer is going to be. The only thing that matters is that it works.

The amazing thing about China achieving independence does nothing against the West... that isn't theirs in the first place. The West doesn't have to the right to make money from everyone else. The West doesn't have a right to control everything. They believe it but they won't say it out loud because they know the world will turn against them. China can sell their chips to whoever they want. It's like Obama's argument to the world to not be involved with China's AIIB. He charges China will have less restrictions for countries who take loans. Since when do countries that want loans want more conditions placed on themselves in order to get it? This is America thinking everyone else is dumb because they just have to suggest a negative connotation in general to get everyone to avoid it.

The less money the West makes, the less they can do with what they already have. China bought 60% of world's chips means everyone's cut in the West is 60% less now. Production costs go up because China is no longer a part of their chain meaning smaller profit margins. They have less money to spend or they have to raise prices in order to make up their losses. China comes in with a cheaper alternative and electronics companies will buy because they want larger profit margins. If they don't, competitors will buy and then they go bankrupt because their products are too expensive and can't compete. That's how the West's own capitalist market principles work.
The people's semiconductor.
Lower cost and less advanced.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
The people's semiconductor.
Lower cost and less advanced.
If it works for the job who cares? The US's most advanced nuclear warhead was designed on an Apple IIe. It wasn't done on a supercomputer. Or how about when the US ban Chinese chips on US military hardware, how was it Chinese chips were still found being used on US military technology? It's because some US military contractor broke the law and wanted to make more money by buying a Chinese alternative that was cheaper that did the same job.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei still can use western software for design. Just no upgrade that's all. Many small Chinese firms used pirated western eda softwares for designs and send to fabs for productions.

Short term wise, stockpile as many western equipments as possible..

Indeginous stuffs gonna take time.
 
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