Chinese semiconductor industry

Doubt -

Some members say China has fully Indigenous 28nm fabs. But what about EDA software of these fabs? How can fabs be Indigenous without EDA software? Is there a domestic supplier in the EDA segment?

Xsizor said:

Doubt -

Some members say China has fully Indigenous 28nm fabs. But what about EDA software of these fabs? How can fabs be Indigenous without EDA software? Is there a domestic supplier in the EDA segment?

Click to expand...

Yes thats the money quote. I also doubt that their EDA software is domestic.

I will note however, that it think building domestic EDA software is easier than creating new IC equipment and for other Semiconductor segments. Software is easier than doing all this super advanced hardware research

Xsizor said:

Doubt -

Some members say China has fully Indigenous 28nm fabs. But what about EDA software of these fabs? How can fabs be Indigenous without EDA software? Is there a domestic supplier in the EDA segment?

Click to expand...

Isn't output from EDA software standardized, or does every other manufacturer create their own standards? If so that seem highly ineffective then.

voyager1 said:

Yes thats the money quote. I also doubt that their EDA software is domestic.

I will note however, that it think building domestic EDA software is easier than creating new IC equipment and for other Semiconductor segments. Software is easier than doing all this super advanced hardware research

Click to expand...

I'm doubtful.
Software isn't easy. Else China would've its own popular Operating system. China also would have alternatives to CAD softwares (Autodesk Dassault Systems etc), Adobe Creative suit, etc


Enabling software programs and Operating systems are the main drivers of the digital economy. I've often awed at the reach of Dassault Systeme (having used it for some time).

voyager1 said:

Yes thats the money quote. I also doubt that their EDA software is domestic.

I will note however, that it think building domestic EDA software is easier than creating new IC equipment and for other Semiconductor segments. Software is easier than doing all this super advanced hardware research

Click to expand...

Agree software is the easier part and China is already top class in that area

There are some Chinese EDA companies

I have no doubt China would be successful in developing competitive EDA software, even for export market, who knows

Xsizor said:

I'm doubtful.
Software isn't easy. Else China would've its own popular Operating system. China also would have alternatives to CAD softwares (Autodesk Dassault Systems etc), Adobe Creative suit, etc


Enabling software programs and Operating systems are the main drivers of the digital economy. I've often awed at the reach of Dassault Systeme (having used it for some time).

Click to expand...

I agree in general. But this is specifically comparing EDA software with EUV equipment and domestically producing the whole semiconductor supply chain.

So I would still say that although EDA is difficult, it is much much easier than doing all of the above. I have also heard that some companies have been set up on EDA however I think it will take some time until they have a competitive product on the market

antiterror13 said:

Agree software is the easier part and China is already top class in that area

There are some Chinese EDA companies

I have no doubt China would be successful in developing competitive EDA software, even for export market, who knows

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@antiterror13 sir I'm not a tech person, but usually when you produce a machine you must program it to your specification? why need a foreign source to make it run? if SMEE 28nm DUVL is under verification then the one doing it are the Chinese with local EDA?

Strangelove said:

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Probably would be banned by somebody who thinks the world's boss

ansy1968 said:

@antiterror13 sir I'm not a tech person, but usually when you produce a machine you must program it to your specification? why need a foreign source to make it run? if SMEE 28nm DUVL is under verification then the one doing it are the Chinese with local EDA?

Click to expand...

Writing and designing software isn't like they make it look like in movies or some of the web frontend influencers make it look like.
Usually you talk more about professional software then actually writing software and this becomes worse the more senior you become.

Writing hundreds lines of code per day is all doable but those lines of code will probably not do anything productive, its usually a big red flag if a company flexes about their programmers writing x amount of Lines of code.

I have done multiple restructuring projects where we cut a old codebase to almost half of the original codebase.
Each time i'm surprised software keeps working as if nothing was removed.