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Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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Well well, I must remember that when they talk about China employing forced technology transfers.US is trying to do 7nm now and will have it up and running because it has absolute access to everything. TSMC is being forced to set up foundry in the US and give every bit of foundry fab tech they have to the US.
Well well, I must remember that when they talk about China employing forced technology transfers.
The US has been doing that for a long time. Forced tech transfer doesn't mean they're incapable of their own tech (obviously!) or that they depend on it (again obviously). Contrary to the same conclusions made for China... where even if China got 1% from forced tech transfer or learning/studying/copying, then 100% of China's efforts and progress is nulled/dismissed by the internet academics. The levels of their self delusions are both funny and actually good because self delusion never serves any decent goal, only fooling themselves into believing false realities. The problem here is the western leaders and decision makers only talk as if this is the case to undermine China and Chinese people (while serving their racist beliefs in intelligence creativity etc LOL) BUT they actually act on it knowing the full truth, that without their constant distortions of truth and disrupting China every single chance it gets (and justifying it with flimsy moralistic models they created themselves) they know China would even sooner rise towards becoming a peer level in overall tech. They say one thing but truly believe and act upon the truth. This is what makes the US a formidable enemy. Their elites are actually logical and cunning. In contrast to for example India where the elites are actually either morons or half baked and they fully believe and act upon delusional thinking and misunderstanding.
US is a tech giant in and of itself. It just also gets to have full access on anything it truly wants from its allies and vassals. It's always been that way since the Cold War. Germany and France have experienced this before... usually they don't bother and it's all kept rather in the academic sphere along with cooperative efforts but sometimes they simply just go for it. Since they lead more or less, there is far less they want from others but if they ever begin slipping more, we'll see this much more often. This is why overall, the US is the supreme tech overlord of the world in just about every single field. China is a distant but certain second overall. Against the US in tech is basically China vs US + all of western Europe + Japan + South Korea + Taiwan.
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Just check out the Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 fighter. In exchange for being able to assemble some US components the Japanese had to cede all sorts of technology they developed for the fighter including their AESA radar and composite materials research. The result is they spend all that money researching technology for the US to use. The Japanese couldn't even export the resulting F-2 fighter. As a result with the F-3 fighter the Japanese are not going to use US technology "help" anymore.
Then there are these Constellation-class frigates. Which are going to be another example of "tech transfer".
Then there are these Constellation-class frigates. Which are going to be another example of "tech transfer".
China should also demand certain technology from the Japanese, so that they can access the Chinese market, which is way larger than that of the US.Thats how the US works. It doesn't need to develop everything. They have their vassals doing the expensive work in researching and then the US comes in and grab it. Thats the priviliage of being a hegemon
The F-2 is just a copy of the F-16. The F-2 also uses an American engine.Just check out the Japanese Mitsubishi F-2 fighter. In exchange for being able to assemble some US components the Japanese had to cede all sorts of technology they developed for the fighter including their AESA radar and composite materials research. The result is they spend all that money researching technology for the US to use. The Japanese couldn't even export the resulting F-2 fighter. As a result with the F-3 fighter the Japanese are not going to use US technology "help" anymore.
Then there are these Constellation-class frigates. Which are going to be another example of "tech transfer".
The F-2 is just a copy of the F-16. The F-2 also uses an American engine.
Is it? It looks the same but it is not the same size at all. It is much larger.
Technology wise might as well be comparing the Super Hornet to the Hornet.
The airframe is made of composite materials and it has an AESA radar.
The radar guided missiles have an AESA seeker as well.
Basically the only thing which is the same is the engine.
The price for that is no exports. And tech transfer of all the Japanese developed to the US.
The Japanese are not interested in repeating the experience. So the J-3 will have a Japanese engine based on the XF9.
China should also demand certain technology from the Japanese, so that they can access the Chinese market, which is way larger than that of the US.
Will never work. You can't exactly deny your own people things. Trade again is a two way street. This attitude is just as delirious as MAGA folks believing their trade war was easy to win... well they lost pretty poorly and escalating in other ways because it didn't work. Gee who woulda thought that morons don't understand economics.
The Japanese were the first to refuse cooperation with Chinese state and state car makers long in the distant past. The Germans had no issue in cooperation and got China's market first. The VW guys differed with the Japanese because of attitude and understanding. The Germans thought there is no way China would be able to learn anything that can be converted eventually into doing small things by itself and then larger things. The Japanese knew the Chinese could and wouldn't allow China to go from 0 to >0 in car manufacturing. Once China was already capable, they cooperated to make profit. Germans considered it impossible lol.
The Germans and anyone else for that matter, never or at most rarely (depending on situation and case) handed over anything in terms of tech. The Chinese if they wanted to learn anything, had to start from zero pulling things apart and complex cooperation between industry, academics, research institutions, universities etc. The Americans when they want certain tech their vassals achieved, can simply put their name on it. The Japanese know this well enough. In fact even some older German and French understand this. It's just much rarer because the US is a tech behemoth and was since WW2. They were rarely not at the leading edge in any field. China was an absolute 0 until Deng's reforms and honestly well after. Even copied technology was hard won and cost effort and time to understand. The rest takes off as the overall tech gap becomes bridged. You just can't force things and China is in no position of influence, power, or offering anything in return to force things. The American offer military security (from imagined and hyped up enemies) and when they have nothing to offer, they have the political presence and real soft power China simply has almost none of. Market and profits be damned... again trade is a two way street. You think banning all foreign tech goods will do China good? Out of your mind?!
Plus lets not forget that with RCEP and CAI, China has made clear commitments on forced tech transfers. It cant do that anymore now, and frankly it doesn't need to.Will never work. You can't exactly deny your own people things. Trade again is a two way street. This attitude is just as delirious as MAGA folks believing their trade war was easy to win... well they lost pretty poorly and escalating in other ways because it didn't work. Gee who woulda thought that morons don't understand economics.
The Japanese were the first to refuse cooperation with Chinese state and state car makers long in the distant past. The Germans had no issue in cooperation and got China's market first. The VW guys differed with the Japanese because of attitude and understanding. The Germans thought there is no way China would be able to learn anything that can be converted eventually into doing small things by itself and then larger things. The Japanese knew the Chinese could and wouldn't allow China to go from 0 to >0 in car manufacturing. Once China was already capable, they cooperated to make profit. Germans considered it impossible lol.
The Germans and anyone else for that matter, never or at most rarely (depending on situation and case) handed over anything in terms of tech. The Chinese if they wanted to learn anything, had to start from zero pulling things apart and complex cooperation between industry, academics, research institutions, universities etc. The Americans when they want certain tech their vassals achieved, can simply put their name on it. The Japanese know this well enough. In fact even some older German and French understand this. It's just much rarer because the US is a tech behemoth and was since WW2. They were rarely not at the leading edge in any field. China was an absolute 0 until Deng's reforms and honestly well after. Even copied technology was hard won and cost effort and time to understand. The rest takes off as the overall tech gap becomes bridged. You just can't force things and China is in no position of influence, power, or offering anything in return to force things. The American offer military security (from imagined and hyped up enemies) and when they have nothing to offer, they have the political presence and real soft power China simply has almost none of. Market and profits be damned... again trade is a two way street. You think banning all foreign tech goods will do China good? Out of your mind?!
China has gained such a dynamic market now with such a big innovation base and plenty of capital that it can do whatever it likes. Of course it will take time but it will happen nevertheless.
The semiconductors is a good example. Now that China has decided to devote itself to this sector, there is no way that it wont accomplish its goals.
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