Chinese semiconductor industry

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BlackWindMnt

Captain
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What worries me is the Americans could ban China from using RISC-V anyway -- and find a way to enforce that ban.


I agree. This is why the new architecture from Loongson could be important. Especially to China's military; the US will definitely use any excuse against the PLA.
Seems hard given RISC-V foundation is not an american foundation anymore. Only thing the US could do is maybe place a import ban on it self. But the Americans are known to be creative when it comes to lawfare.
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Seems hard given RISC-V foundation is not an american foundation anymore. Only thing the US could do is maybe place a import ban on it self. But the Americans are known to be creative when it comes to lawfare.
RISC-V is a non-proprietary INSTRUCTION SET architecture its not a hardware implementation, you can no more stop someone using it than try to ban Chinese people from using the English Language. All the US bans have been to try and stop China producing chips they can't stop China designing them. For example Huawei is still keeping HiSilicon I guess because they believe at some point in the not to distant future their designs can be fabricated US ban or no US ban
 

antonius123

Junior Member
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Well EDA development is cooperative venture The problem with Chinese FAB is they prefer to use Cadence, synopsys, etc. Without cooperation of Chinese FAB , it will be hard struggle . EDA is probably the easiest to achieve self sufficiency but it will be long march. After all Emphyrean has been around for 10 years and they haven't been able to dislodge the like of Cadence etc.
The guy is not saying China 60 years behind but he said China behind because the west has earlier start.

I hope that the mind set will Change and should be obvious now that they cannot stuck their head in the sand and trusting foreign supply chain.

Though the article is 2 years old it still the same problem bedevil China. The elite just have slave mentality. I have Japanese friend long time ago He is great grandson of Admiral Togo. He told me his brother in law work for Nissan and the first thing when the west come up with new car model. He would bought it and dismantle it see what is inside and try to replicate or even improve on it ! And if any one read the story of Toyoda should know it star as textile machinery manufacture and when car first come to Japan. They not only want to import but build it themselves!. Now that is spirit of independence

It should be easy for chinese government to control it.
Just impose fine on foundry who doesnt want to use local EDA.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
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Fab doesn't care what EDA used. The file output from eda is binary describing the circuitry which sent to the fab.

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Main cpu used in Chinese military is loongson

Loongson is the most heavily used for emdedded system in China such as bank atm, industrial control, traffic light , high-speed train etc. It's deeply entrenched in China. Going to risc v is too much changes and unnecessary
 
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weig2000

Captain
Chinese Govt finally realising the importance of the Semiconductor Industry to China's National Security and Prosperity.
China now funding R&D on 4 types of EUV Light Sources but this all takes time.
Govt now spending big on EUVL Development.
SMEE 28nm DUVL will go into small scale production in 2nd half of the Year.
Mass Production in 2022.

To be fair, Chinese government realized the importance of the semiconductor industry at least since 2000, when the first set of state regulations and policies promoting both public and private investments in the sector came into effect. Soon after, both semiconductor manufacturing and equipment figured prominently in China's Key State Projects 2005 - 2020. A lot of government investments since then have gone into R&D, venture funding and subsidies. These have started to bear fruits, particularly in the last five years.

But you need an industry-wide collaborative and coordinated efforts to truly make across-the-board advances and to become largely self-reliance in the semiconductor supply chain, given how far behind China has been in the sector compared to the global competitors. The facts that it's a very dynamic industry and China's semiconductor market, including both chip manufacturing and equipment, is wide open, make it very difficult for Chinese companies to close the gap and make a dent in market share.

Enter the US sanctions. First it was ZTE - people thought it was an one-off event and some even blamed ZTE for non-compliance or carelessness. Then came the crackdowns on Huawei, with ever tightening screw, it had become clear that the US was deliberate and determined to cripple if not kill a national champion. Finally, it was everybody else, from SMIC, AMEC, to Phytium and other chip companies for supercomputers and more. It was meant to suffocate China's tech industry. It's now become a matter of national security and prosperity.

China therefore needs a whole-of-government and whole-of-society strategy to deal with the challenge. Business as usual won't do. Some short-term pains and setbacks are inevitable, e.g. Huawei. But with a huge and booming market for everything semiconductor, a very board industrial and scientific base, China should be able to address the problem in 5-10 years. The track records of Chinese dealing with similar challenges in defense, space, electronics and other industries speak to the confidence of China stepping up to the challenge.

The last few years have been a stress test for the rise of China. It exposes some weaknesses of China, semiconductor being one of them. But for the most part, China has withstood the test and shown its strength and resilience in the face of real challenges to its government, people, society and system. In the end, the US sanctions on semiconductor may very well turn out to be a blessing in disguise.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
RISC-V is a non-proprietary INSTRUCTION SET architecture its not a hardware implementation, you can no more stop someone using it than try to ban Chinese people from using the English Language.
Americans might not be able to ban the manufacturing of RISC-V chips, but they could certainly ban Chinese products that contain RISC-V from being sold anywhere in the West (and Japan).
 

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
Americans might not be able to ban the manufacturing of RISC-V chips, but they could certainly ban Chinese products that contain RISC-V from being sold anywhere in the West (and Japan).
What you gonna ban people from making a profit? Good luck with that.
 

daifo

Major
Registered Member
Americans might not be able to ban the manufacturing of RISC-V chips, but they could certainly ban Chinese products that contain RISC-V from being sold anywhere in the West (and Japan).

They can't really ban it but put pressure/sanction on suppliers and countries. "Do what we say or else ..." Huawei phones never got banned in the US (yet), but they put pressure on ATT/tmobile to not sell it thru their store. Anyways, the "west" is only 1 billion people, there is anoterh 6 billion consumers
 

hkbc

Junior Member
Americans might not be able to ban the manufacturing of RISC-V chips, but they could certainly ban Chinese products that contain RISC-V from being sold anywhere in the West (and Japan).

What about'ism at its finest

On that basis they can ban anything and everything made in China and vice versa you can throw the rulebook out of the window and its just a war of attrition with the last man standing, so place your bets!

Another minute of my life wasted
 
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