Chinese semiconductor industry

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voyager1

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Risc-V foundation has already purposely moved to sweden or switzerland to avoid any attempt by the US to restrict usage. There is nothing stoping China from continuing using MIPS/x86/ARM, it would just be a problem commercializing it externally if they did not have a proper license. The only way that China can truly be a real global computing tech giant is to own and make popular a homegrown ISA and OS, otherwise it will always just be a outsource manufacturer
MIPS is a yesterday tech.
x86 is getting killed
ARM is the future (in the West)

RISC-V is what China will use
 

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Intel and amd cpus are still dominating over ARM cpu.
Is Huawei cpu based on RISC-V?
As far as i am aware Huawei cpu are based on ARM, I think in China Alibaba's T-Head with their Xuantie 910 is the most advance Risc-V design right now. In the US you have SiFive as the main Risc-V design house. Maybe we will hear something soon, i do know that allwinner has designed a raspberry-pi like board based on Risc-V.
 

Chish

Junior Member
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Thats all good and nice however Chinese Chip imports are increasing. China can brag all it wants but the data dont lie
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So they are stockpiling because they dont have domestic production.

I will wait for the next 2 years. If in 2 years chips imports continue to increase then that would be an issue.

I think China is making progress, but they are too slow on constructing foundries (even older processes)
The day that China stop importing chips is the day that China stop being the world top manufacturer. China should continue to sell according to consumers demand. Nothing wrong with increasing chips import every year if markets demand them. Hope China don't let ego, politics or arrogance screwed up their businesses acumen. They already have an impressive record. Don't be so judgemental on them.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
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@WTAN any news when the domesticated 14nm line will open this year or next year?
A fully indigenous 14nm Production line may be 1-2 years away.
China has already sucessfully developed a fully indigenous 28nm Production line.
Companies like Naura, North CETC etc are already working on 14nm Equipment.
There is also the option of acquiring second hand 14nm Equipment and recently SMIC has been doing this.
SMIC is already building a De-Americanised 14nm Production Line as US approvals for new equipment purchases have not come through.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
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Any interesting updates currently on EUV or SMEE's 28nm lithography development efforts?
Chinese Govt finally realising the importance of the Semiconductor Industry to China's National Security and Prosperity.
China now funding R&D on 4 types of EUV Light Sources but this all takes time.
Govt now spending big on EUVL Development.
SMEE 28nm DUVL will go into small scale production in 2nd half of the Year.
Mass Production in 2022.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
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Interesting here is what the leading semi industrialist think of China effort to achieve self sufficiency. This discussion more or less confirm the problem that we have been discussing in this forum
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Interesting article, thanks. Note that it's dated April 11, 2019, over two years ago.


Empyrean Software is the leading EDA supplier based in China. Dong noted that the EDA industry is 60 years old, while Empyrean is only 10 years old this year
Empyrean is already ten years old? That is better than I expected.


Xia believes that Chinese industry should not automatically support domestic EDA tools simply because they are from China.
Xia Yanqiu is from HiSilicon (Huawei). Of course he would prefer to continue using US tools, which his people know. However, he said that two years ago. What does he think of the recent sanctions, which might include the use of EDA tools from American vendors? Actually, I'm not sure if those tools are included in the sanctions. But even if they aren't, China should prepare for the possibility that US EDA tools will be banned. Americans are playing very dirty.

Switching to Chinese EDA tools will cost some training time, but as the people being trained are engineers, the learning shouldn't take long.


“The chip is the basis of communication. Although 14 chip manufacturers are currently certified by the ZigBee Alliance worldwide, only one Chinese company is certified,” said Weimin
That was said two years ago.


It is unrealistic to expect China can become competitive in EDA in three years. Domestic EDA manufacturers must aim at 10 years and 20 years to do it.
This was not a quote. The (presumably American) author is saying this. I doubt that he is right that 10 or 20 more years are required to make a Chinese EDA tool. ***


“I think my product is ready, but no customers want to help me, no customer can tell me the disadvantages of my products.”
This is precisely what worried me upthread, that Chinese companies might starve local suppliers, preferring to give their money to American companies instead. However, that was two years ago.


That said, Chinese companies are becoming competitive. Cao said, “When our equipment is good enough, they will remove it from the list of restricted exports. For example, the Bureau of Industry and Security of the United States Department of Commerce went to AMEC, and then went to SMIC the next day, where they saw our equipment running smoothly in SMIC’s fab. They removed the equipment from the embargo list six months later.” Cao said, “The reason is that China has been able to produce enough equipment and good equipment, so it’s no longer meaningful to continue to limit security in the United States.” [Emphasis added]
:D :D :D Note that AMEC was already selling stuff to SMIC two years ago. :cool:


*** Why I doubt that 10 or 20 more years will be needed for China to develop EDA tools. For one thing, as noted earlier, Empyrean is already 10 years old. For another, an EDA tool doesn't have to do everything in order to be very useful; if it only does the most important jobs, that will be good enough, for now.
 

Nutrient

Junior Member
Registered Member
Risc-V foundation has already purposely moved to sweden or switzerland to avoid any attempt by the US to restrict usage. There is nothing stoping China from continuing using MIPS/x86/ARM, it would just be a problem commercializing it externally if they did not have a proper license.
What worries me is the Americans could ban China from using RISC-V anyway -- and find a way to enforce that ban.

The only way that China can truly be a real global computing tech giant is to own and make popular a homegrown ISA and OS, otherwise it will always just be a outsource manufacturer
I agree. This is why the new architecture from Loongson could be important. Especially to China's military; the US will definitely use any excuse against the PLA.
 

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
Well EDA development is cooperative venture The problem with Chinese FAB is they prefer to use Cadence, synopsys, etc. Without cooperation of Chinese FAB , it will be hard struggle . EDA is probably the easiest to achieve self sufficiency but it will be long march. After all Emphyrean has been around for 10 years and they haven't been able to dislodge the like of Cadence etc.
The guy is not saying China 60 years behind but he said China behind because the west has earlier start.

I hope that the mind set will Change and should be obvious now that they cannot stuck their head in the sand and trusting foreign supply chain.

Though the article is 2 years old it still the same problem bedevil China. The elite just have slave mentality. I have Japanese friend long time ago He is great grandson of Admiral Togo. He told me his brother in law work for Nissan and the first thing when the west come up with new car model. He would bought it and dismantle it see what is inside and try to replicate or even improve on it ! And if any one read the story of Toyoda should know it star as textile machinery manufacture and when car first come to Japan. They not only want to import but build it themselves!. Now that is spirit of independence
 
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