Chinese semiconductor industry

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ougoah

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bettydice said:
If a company really wants to sell to China, wouldn't it be possible by moving to another country? Countries can block foreign takeover of their companies, but they can't block their companies leaving the country, can they?
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Crang said:
Just destroy TSMC. Starting from afresh, America will suffer more.
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Are you guys taking the piss?

No to the first guy because the business would be the one which needs to comply with the orders from big boss uncle sam. Moving to a different country? I suppose the US can't do anything then? lol

They can secretly sell and risk everything. They risk losing their operations, their income, even their lives if darker conspiracies are entertained. Like everyone else, the US doesn't play nice and plenty of political and corporate leaders know it's not only their pockets on the line.

Destroy TSMC in Taiwan and what about all the other parts of the supply chain entirely dominated by the US who also could transfer everything along the chain to under their roof? Mainland destroying TSMC is beyond stupid. If it does, it would have been an accident. Taiwanese or Americans are far more likely to destroy it to avoid it getting into PRC hands.

Anyway all of this is dumb. Fight a war over a few small things that could take anywhere between a few months to 5 or so years to totally complete mastering.
 
BoraTas

BoraTas

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bettydice said:
Are you suggesting that the Taiwanese will destroy their own TSMC facilities in the case of forceful reunification? Even in that case, there won't be a TSMC for the West either.

I think reunification through peaceful means is not plausible, close to fantasy.

I think China needs to act on Taiwan together with Russia's action on Ukraine. The longer China waits, the less the chances. Taiwan's military becomes more damaging. The US now disregards one China policy and is strengthening diplomatic ties with Taiwan. Next step might be that the US includes Taiwan in the Quads and deploys military weapons and troops in Taiwan. Doing nothing means the US will take all.
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TSMC is NOTHING on the geostrategic level. Absolutely nothing. It wouldn't even be talked about if a war happens. Taiwanese military is much smaller than the Chinese military and the Taiwanese economy is just 4% of China's. Taiwan is not a military threat for China and it couldn't be a one even if it wanted.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
ougoah said:
Are you guys taking the piss?

No to the first guy because the business would be the one which needs to comply with the orders from big boss uncle sam. Moving to a different country? I suppose the US can't do anything then? lol

They can secretly sell and risk everything. They risk losing their operations, their income, even their lives if darker conspiracies are entertained. Like everyone else, the US doesn't play nice and plenty of political and corporate leaders know it's not only their pockets on the line.

Destroy TSMC in Taiwan and what about all the other parts of the supply chain entirely dominated by the US who also could transfer everything along the chain to under their roof? Mainland destroying TSMC is beyond stupid. If it does, it would have been an accident. Taiwanese or Americans are far more likely to destroy it to avoid it getting into PRC hands.

Anyway all of this is dumb. Fight a war over a few small things that could take anywhere between a few months to 5 or so years to totally complete mastering.
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Agreed. All this talk about TSMC is nothing.

TSMC for me, doesn't even matter. What matters is China developing its own EUV equipment (like ASML + its suppliers).

Everyone here is too much occupied with TSMC, when domestic EUV is completed then just set up 10 companies and start mass selling them the EUV machines. Then poof TSMC is gone.

Obviously thats an overstatement, but my point stands. What matters is the Equipment development, Foundries come second, and Design tools come last
 
NiuBiDaRen

NiuBiDaRen

Brigadier
Registered Member
ougoah said:
Are you guys taking the piss?

No to the first guy because the business would be the one which needs to comply with the orders from big boss uncle sam. Moving to a different country? I suppose the US can't do anything then? lol

They can secretly sell and risk everything. They risk losing their operations, their income, even their lives if darker conspiracies are entertained. Like everyone else, the US doesn't play nice and plenty of political and corporate leaders know it's not only their pockets on the line.

Destroy TSMC in Taiwan and what about all the other parts of the supply chain entirely dominated by the US who also could transfer everything along the chain to under their roof? Mainland destroying TSMC is beyond stupid. If it does, it would have been an accident. Taiwanese or Americans are far more likely to destroy it to avoid it getting into PRC hands.

Anyway all of this is dumb. Fight a war over a few small things that could take anywhere between a few months to 5 or so years to totally complete mastering.
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Just to set the context, I was replying to voyager saying Taiwan aka Chinese Taipei wanted to self-destroy TSMC. If so, go ahead!
voyager1 said:
Taiwan would absolutely blow up the TSMC foundries
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Ain't gonna shoot myself in the foot, that's fo sure
 
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ougoah

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The question remains, how will China cope with not being able to make or source state of the art chips (it designs itself but fabbed by Taiwan Samsung whoever) until China's own EUV and EPA become available for the many fabless Chinese companies. China's own manufacturing is limited to DUV process 28nm correct? Is this enough to go on until domestic fabrication technology allows for 5nm and so on? If not, then how f*cked is it between not really that bad to hopelessly? in terms of economic losses for businesses who cannot stay competitive and actual requirements for keeping technological development flowing at the same old rate.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Crang said:
Just to set the context, I was replying to voyager saying Taiwan wanted to self-destroy TSMC. If so, go ahead!
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Yeah okay. In the event of a war, I can't imagine why they wouldn't. Except for some mainland sympathisers or something along those lines.

It's utterly stupid to think a forceful reunification would have ANYTHING to do with chips and TSMC. It would be akin to burning down your car because you saw a spider walking towards it. Utterly stupid and entertained by meatheads with hard-ons for some demented idea of virtuous violence.
 
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voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
ougoah said:
The question remains, how will China cope with not being able to make or source state of the art chips until China's own EUV and EPA become available for the many fabless Chinese companies. China's own manufacturing is limited to DUV process 28nm correct? Is this enough to go on until domestic fabrication technology allows for 5nm and so on? If not, then how f*cked is it between not really that bad to hopelessly? in terms of economic losses for businesses who cannot stay competitive and actual requirements for keeping technological development flowing at the same old rate.
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Yep, thats why I have said many times that all these domestic companies were traitors for so long.

The way I see it now, the US has a guillotine ready to fall on China's head from now until 2025. So until 2025, China is at US' mercy.

Now China has countermeasures as well, but if US decided to throw caution to the wind then China is ****ed
 
BoraTas

BoraTas

Captain
Registered Member
ougoah said:
The question remains, how will China cope with not being able to make or source state of the art chips until China's own EUV and EPA become available for the many fabless Chinese companies. China's own manufacturing is limited to DUV process 28nm correct? Is this enough to go on until domestic fabrication technology allows for 5nm and so on? If not, then how f*cked is it between not really that bad to hopelessly? in terms of economic losses for businesses who cannot stay competitive and actual requirements for keeping technological development flowing at the same oldSMIC rate.
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SMIC's 7 nm goes online next month. Design is already top-notch. EDA tools can be pirated for government and military applications. The problem is with fab equipment. Can be solved in a decade.
 
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Deleted member 15949

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BoraTas said:
SMIC's 7 nm goes online next month. Design is already top-notch. EDA tools can be pirated for government and military applications. The problem is with fab equipment. Can be solved in a decade.
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And substantial amounts of problem can be resolved with the SMEE ArFi
 
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