Chinese semiconductor industry

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BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Yes, but almost all scientific inventor is westerner. I wonder if caucasian brain is far superior than asian.
Ooh you're one of those kind of people, the only reason the west has been innovating is because they had centuries of worth of plundering non western countries, had centuries to build up knowledge institutions.

Sad thing is they got those tools of destruction/colonization from Asia like gunpowder and the printing press. lets just say the west heard about the movable type which might have in turn inspired Gutenberg to develop the printing press. The printing press helped jumped start the spread of knowledge, so the Europeans could take what stagnated in Asia and bring it to the next level.

What you will see is the potential reversal of this, when Asian tech talents stays in Asia and western based Asian tech talent might return back you will see the accumulation of more and more tech talent within Asian. Because that is what you really need is thinking brains that can come up with ideas. The more thinking brains there are in the region the more innovation will take place.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes, but almost all scientific inventor is westerner. I wonder if caucasian brain is far superior than asian.

Most are because they industrialised first. There are actually heaps of east asian scientific and mathematics talents from 1950s onwards. HEAPS. You just don't hear them unless you're in the science and tech field. And no not all inventors are westerners. Most were from the turn of the century when asia was a war torn mess that is barely if even indsutrialising. Before that, people were mostly on an equal footing but the steam engine changed history... well the enlightenment started it.

Caucasian brain is smaller in volume and average IQ less than east asian brain. Jewish brain however is the mightiest of the lot lol. East asians just have lower kurtosis whereas caucasians benefit from having a greater spread in IQ and their societies granting the top end to pull their near retarded masses, through evolution, asians developed more conforming attitudes and IQ.

Inventions are increasingly more contributed to by Asians. It's such a false stereotype now that westerners invented everything. It's only becoming more apparent the more asian economies and nations develop. I mean this is too obvious. Undeveloped nations almost contribute nothing meanwhile developing and developed ones do. China is responsible for nearly half the cited scientific papers. It's a good snapshot of the overall field. I mean these days inventing a new way to do a display screen counts as an invention right? Well all of display tech after CRT has been asian. In fact many times the inventions and the inventing groups in the US are founded, owned, operated, and staffed by a great deal of asians (and non-caucasians of all kinds). So yeah very dated and false belief.

But this is probably not worth discussing because it's dangerously off topic.


Semiconductor is extremely harder than making hydrogen bomb or jet engine. It almost impossible except if China has someone smart people like einstein. China has 1.4 billion people. Who's fault is this. China education maybe?

They are different. The metaphor works because it's a national challenge almost of equal high importance.

If you know anything about science you wouldn't have picked Einstein as your example lol. Christ even Fermi, Rutherford, Pauli could have been better examples. At least they didn't very likely get their wives to do half their work ;) Newton is the ultimate though but at least Newton had the decency to claim that he stood on the shoulders of giants if he was able to see further. Anyway speaking of Einstein, the US began to dominate science and tech from the 1940s only. 80 years is a VERY short time in history, even just human history. It began with Jewish immigration from Europe into the US. It exploded and peaked around the 60s to 70s and hasn't been quite as explosive as it once was... blame it on whatever but while they're undeniably first still, even Taiwan, Japan and Korea are science and tech giants already. China has the potential to be all three of those times 5 given population and landmass.

Chinese education isn't perfect but it's decent enough to have allowed for the progress it has experienced. But if you subscribe to white nationalist/supremicist/exceptionalist beliefs about Chinese only copying and whatnot, well I suppose you can't understand the other half.

If semiconductor is so hard how come most of the industry is dominated by east asians in Taiwan, Japan, Korea, and east asians in the US? Many of them from mainland China and Chinese universities before going overseas. Same with the software and AI industry in the US. It's disproportionately made up of non-caucasians. Doesn't that prove you wrong and if anything, the exact opposite of what you said to be true?

For every Edward Teller, there is a 钱三强, for every Gauss there is a Shinichi Mochizuki or the nameless Chinese mathematicians who worked out "Gaussian elimination" centuries before Gauss and wrote Chinese mathematics textbooks on the topic. For every Eugen Sanger or Verner Von Braun there is a Qian Xuesen. And plenty more... it's just not as widely known or reported in fact it almost never is. Do the nameless Korean engineers at Samsung get do much attention and celebration because they developed superior screen technologies to the caucasian CRT? Do Chinese engineers get recognition for developing new forms of genetically modified vegetables that can be grown in sandy soil? Do the Chinese ones that figured out how to quadruple rice yields for the poverty stricken populations of the world? How about the Chinese engineers and physicists that developed quantum communication? Or the ones who developed 5G?
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Lmao, Einstein was the most important man of a couple of centuries so far. Have a look around you, and then realise that without him 80% of your tech wouldn't even exist without him.

If you have some physics knowledge you would understand why. Einstein was so brilliant that I dont even classify him as a human. His ingenuity was so big, that to me there is more chance of him coming from aliens than being human lol

Not really. Photoelectric effect is probably the main one. I mean people would have worked out how to synchronise GPS clocks etc. Much of his stuff is still theoretical works and while he's undeniably a generational genius, Einstein doesn't come close to Newton, at best he's Goethe level. edit... honestly not even Goethe level but still more than respectable. Einstein DEFINITELY benefited from A LOOOOOOOOT of politicising during his era. So so so much political nonsense.

The tech around us is mostly thanks for more modern scientists and engineers who surely may have benefited from a thing or two Einstein worked out and theorised but then we should also credit those other people who worked out not one or two things but hundreds upon thousands.

Just the science that goes into building a machine that assembles furniture alone. That's more Newton than Einstein and even more thanks to many nameless others.
 
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bettydice

Junior Member
Registered Member
No it's not limited to that. TSMC is setting up shop in the US are they not?

I doubt a forceful reunification will end up with TSMC on Taiwan intact. Do you think it will be?

Russia's action in Ukraine will be ignored by the west in terms of military action. If they won't ignore it, they wouldn't be delaying Ukraine from joining NATO and the defence pact. Forceful reunification with Taiwan may or may not be the correct move and is certainly fraught with danger and uncertainty. Just because peaceful means is not plausible according to your opinion, doesn't mean China goes in guns blazing and risk all the build up for little return. Face it, Taiwan means very little beyond the sanctity of Chinese sovereignty and symbolic of its completed transformation from the "old China" into the new. In terms of material value, it is like risking 99% for a 1% gain. A fool's gambit.

I just wanted to point out how stupid it sounds to believe that a war on Taiwan would claim some TSMC tech. China's overcoming of EUV and EPA isn't limited to "must conquer Taiwan".

US owns Taiwan pretty much. If they didn't why would Taiwan set up TSMC in US at the behest of the US? Why would TSMC comply with bans which take money away from their pockets?

If Taiwan allows US to deploy military assets on its land, then that's another issue. Of course that would push mainland into reunification through force.

Sometimes I feel a lot of you new members are hot headed and underinformed adolescents with no grasp on reality.
If Russia's action in Ukraine will be ignored by the west, that's because Russia's strong military reaction is expected. They have been delaying Ukraine from joining NATO and the defence fact only because Russia wouldn't compromise and is willing to take military actions. And you can apply your same "will be ignored by the west" logic about China and Taiwan. The West hasn't been actively providing such military alliance for Taiwan.

You say Taiwan means very little and nothing more than being symbolic yet you say US owns Taiwan. Taiwan being US asset just in front of China alone means a lot to China. The US and Japan don't agree that Taiwan is insignificant, they are increasingly treating Taiwan as an important leverage to counter China. How can that mean little?

Saying US owns Taiwan for those reasons is an exaggeration. Do you not consider the devastating effect of US sanctions? Compared to what they get if they don't comply with US bans, taking some money away from their pockets is trivial. They will be financially cut off and trade will be cut off. Besides, even with the US bans on Chinese companies, TSMC is selling at their full capacity and can't meet the demand. It's not just TSMC or Taiwanese companies that are afraid and obey the US ban. Even many Chinese companies comply with the US sanctions. Are they too owned by the US?

So you think Chinese military drills around Taiwan and what Chinese military say about Taiwan are nothing but all bluff?
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Thats like saying America wouldnt exists without Mayflower or Christoper Columbus ... if it wasnt him it would have been someone else...

Einstein was only into theortical thought experiements, zero application. In fact they didnt even include him in the atomic projects but Israel offered him honorable President role offer... he was more PR than anything, more of a Bill Nye than real Tesla

His wife also helped him with a lot of his work but didnt recieved the credit

All the maths he relied on to publish general and special relativity was already discovered and published by other people

He dabbled in the realm of the low hanging fruit... any kid who sat down and thought hard enough could have reasoned if light speed must always be constant regardless of observer then it must be space and time itself that shifts to accomodate a constant c in all frames of reference... that was the core of all his work in truth... it was his claim to fame

Einstein himself stated imagination for him was more important than intelligence and upon his death they dissected his brain and found nothing all that uniquely different about him

This aint 1905 anymore, China could have a thousand Einsteins as Einstein really was, and it would do nothing to boost Chinese EUV efforts or semiconductor advancements.
Here is the ultimate proof that nationalism is bad.

Go read some Physics books and then come back to say that "even a kid would have thought about it" and that China could produce "thousands Einsteins"..

Wont even bother to respond to this because I am feeling my brains cells dying just thinking about your response
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Not really. Photoelectric effect is probably the main one. I mean people would have worked out how to synchronise GPS clocks etc. Much of his stuff is still theoretical works and while he's undeniably a generational genius, Einstein doesn't come close to Newton, at best he's Goethe level. edit... honestly not even Goethe level but still more than respectable. Einstein DEFINITELY benefited from A LOOOOOOOOT of politicising during his era. So so so much political nonsense.

The tech around us is mostly thanks for more modern scientists and engineers who surely may have benefited from a thing or two Einstein worked out and theorised but then we should also credit those other people who worked out not one or two things but hundreds upon thousands.

Just the science that goes into building a machine that assembles furniture alone. That's more Newton than Einstein and even more thanks to many nameless others.
Agreed that Newton was more important. Einstein himself said that his work was built upon other theories. What i am actually praising was his imagination and theorytical background.

BTW I dont know how they would manage to synchronize the GPS clocks without his reasearch.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
If Russia's action in Ukraine will be ignored by the west, that's because Russia's strong military reaction is expected. They have been delaying Ukraine from joining NATO and the defence fact only because Russia wouldn't compromise and is willing to take military actions. And you can apply your same "will be ignored by the west" logic about China and Taiwan. The West hasn't been actively providing such military alliance for Taiwan.

You say Taiwan means very little and nothing more than being symbolic yet you say US owns Taiwan. Taiwan being US asset just in front of China alone means a lot to China. The US and Japan don't agree that Taiwan is insignificant, they are increasingly treating Taiwan as an important leverage to counter China. How can that mean little?

Saying US owns Taiwan for those reasons is an exaggeration. Do you not consider the devastating effect of US sanctions? Compared to what they get if they don't comply with US bans, taking some money away from their pockets is trivial. They will be financially cut off and trade will be cut off. Besides, even with the US bans on Chinese companies, TSMC is selling at their full capacity and can't meet the demand. It's not just TSMC or Taiwanese companies that are afraid and obey the US ban. Even many Chinese companies comply with the US sanctions. Are they too owned by the US?

So you think Chinese military drills around Taiwan and what Chinese military say about Taiwan are nothing but all bluff?

Well consider that my original point was in refuting the idea that China should "strike the iron while it's hot" when Russia goes guns blazing into Ukraine because the US and NATO will be distracted. So you're wrong ... doubly wrong.

Who cares what is expected of military action... the important thing out of the ukraine russia NATO equation is the resultant that NATO won't take action unless Russia oversteps some lines they surely won't. That's all there is to it. That means no "distraction" and silly idea of US being bogged down in Europe. And now we reach Taiwan and China. The west may also ignore Taiwan... did I say they will or will not? I think it is you who isn't appreciating the margin of error in whatever crystal ball someone has somewhere. There is no certainty with this war and so there is no confident attitude.

I can't bother explaining rest... it totally removes context of my points. I'm saying US policy has a lot of control over Taiwan.

The Taiwanese are owned in the sense that they have no real choice in the matter there wrt bans. With Chinese companies complying, they do at the end of the day. They comply when it is befitting and choose not to at the risk of consequences but at the end of the day, they still have the choice e.g. selling to Iran.

I think Chinese military drills around Taiwan are more posturing. Like constantly saying you are on thin ice with this or that statement and move. To remind that a military solution is something the mainland has not ruled out and to not get comfortable enough to make poor political decisions like host US military bases or declare independence. It's also a Pavlovian action, you know rewarding good behaviour and "punishing" bad ones. It sounds dumb and kind of is but this is how geopol is played in many situations at many moment in history by many players.
 

quantumlight

Junior Member
Registered Member
Agreed that Newton was more important. Einstein himself said that his work was built upon other theories. What i am actually praising was his imagination and theorytical background.

BTW I dont know how they would manage to synchronize the GPS clocks without his reasearch.

Anyway, this is offtopic, it just that poster burnt my brain with his "China could produce thousands Einsteins" nonsense
Do not misquote me, I stated even if China had access to a thousand Einsteins it wouldnt help China with modern EUV or semiconductors. Do not tell me to go read physics books when its obvious you need to read some English language books.
 
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Deleted member 15949

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Semiconductor is extremely harder than making hydrogen bomb or jet engine. It almost impossible except if China has someone smart people like einstein. China has 1.4 billion people. Who's fault is this. China education maybe?
No one. Significant amounts of the industrial capability are already there. The market incentives didn't exist before. The exist now
 
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