Chinese semiconductor industry

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Oldschool

Junior Member
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@Oldschool bro, if Samsung is able to do this, then others will follow and maybe ASML might establish a separate product line with older tech EUVL just for the Chinese market.
Well, we just have to keep an eye on whether Huawei does getting 5nm chips from Samsung.
I heard TSMC wants to develope EUV lithography itself so it can cut cost and not restricted by US when dealing with China.
China cannot control what others will do so it must focus on its own development.
Here is one question, India or China , which one develope their military faster? India has alot of availability from foreign supplier while China got embargoed and restricted by many.
China has greater motivation to develope its own under embargo environment. Easy path is a trap.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
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Well, we just have to keep an eye on whether Huawei does getting 5nm chips from Samsung.
I heard TSMC wants to develope EUV lithography itself so it can cut cost and not restricted by US when dealing with China.
China cannot control what others will do so it must focus on its own development.
Here is one question, India or China , which one develope their military faster? India has alot of availability from foreign supplier while China got embargoed and restricted by many.
China has greater motivation to develope its own under embargo environment. Easy path is a trap.
@Oldschool can they do both? there is a urgency, maybe if the local tools (EUVL) is available then they can used it. The problem is if China will allow foreigners to owned and operate it.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Well, we just have to keep an eye on whether Huawei does getting 5nm chips from Samsung.
I heard TSMC wants to develope EUV lithography itself so it can cut cost and not restricted by US when dealing with China.
China cannot control what others will do so it must focus on its own development.
Here is one question, India or China , which one develope their military faster? India has alot of availability from foreign supplier while China got embargoed and restricted by many.
China has greater motivation to develope its own under embargo environment. Easy path is a trap.
China should allow all foreign players to supply non-US lithography equipment to supply the market until China develops its own lithography equioment.

When that happens then China should raise tariffs on all IC equipment containing US IP. Note that this will include non-US IP supplier as well but the tariffs should be small, e.g 10-25% while for US IP supplier should be at least 100%. (Hard tariffs or soft tariffs)

After 7-10 years or so, when domestic IC is comlarable to foreign, it should drop tariffs for non-US and could use dropping US supplier tariffs as a leverage when negotiating with the US.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
China should allow all foreign players to supply non-US lithography equipment to supply the market until China develops its own lithography equioment.

When that happens then China should raise tariffs on all IC equipment containing US IP. Note that this will include non-US IP supplier as well but the tariffs should be small, e.g 10-25% while for US IP supplier should be at least 100%. (Hard tariffs or soft tariffs)

After 7-10 years or so, when domestic IC is comlarable to foreign, it should drop tariffs for non-US and could use dropping US supplier tariffs as a leverage when negotiating with the US.


I am leaning to the other side. I have a feeling both Korea and Taiwan got jealous when they heard China is developing its own EUV and now they want to get into the mix. What EUV they develope the west will not tolerate because that's their domain. So Taiwan and Korea are planning using China market to nurture their own EUV development.
At the same time they are in US camp as far as security concerned. I am leery of helping Korea and Taiwan further develope their tech by giving the crucial market support and they don't have their own and elsewhere.
Then again, China already had EUV prototype, and may come out EUV faster than Taiwan and Korea. So this would become a moot point.

Ultimately it's better off for China to decouple technologically not only from US but the west in general as well. It going to take some times.

China space tech and military already decoupled from the west.
 

Tyler

Captain
Registered Member
I am leaning to the other side. I have a feeling both Korea and Taiwan got jealous when they heard China is developing its own EUV and now they want to get into the mix. What EUV they develope the west will not tolerate because that's their domain. So Taiwan and Korea are planning using China market to nurture their own EUV development.
At the same time they are in US camp as far as security concerned. I am leery of helping Korea and Taiwan further develope their tech by giving the crucial market support and they don't have their own and elsewhere.
Then again, China already had EUV prototype, and may come out EUV faster than Taiwan and Korea. So this would become a moot point.

Ultimately it's better off for China to decouple technologically not only from US but the west in general as well. It going to take some times.

China space tech and military already decoupled from the west.
Korea and Taiwan lags in EUV technology. They are just able to buy machines from ASML. Other than that, they do not know how to make lithographic machines.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Korea and Taiwan lags in EUV technology. They are just able to buy machines from ASML. Other than that, they do not know how to make lithographic machines.
Agreed. These are just Fabs. Sorry to say but Fabs themselves are useless without IC equipment. So these 2 countries dont have anything special to offer to China. Japan has, but its on the Quad so that a No No
 
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