Korea maybe could do it, but Taiwan I seriously doubt it. Not without importing a lot of components.
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Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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Korea maybe could do it, but Taiwan I seriously doubt it. Not without importing a lot of components.
If the Huawei Samsung experiment is successful, Chinese gov should persuade other chip designers in China to start "balancing" orders from TSMC to Samsung. In the meantime, they should also helps Samsung/Korea if they have aspiration to manufacture equipments provided that China will also have ability to manufacture those. At this point money should be least concern compared to access, don't be stingy.
The Americans were bold enough to spend more than 1T dollar to have F35, China too should be ready to spend hundreds of billion dollar as well.
The Americans were bold enough to spend more than 1T dollar to have F35, China too should be ready to spend hundreds of billion dollar as well.
@Tyler , agreed , having experience the same xenophobic treatment from the US , the Japanese knew better not to trust them either.Japan has no choice but to cooperate with China, in developing their lithographic machines, for the Chinese market.
@caudaceus , that is the main crux doesn't it, if successful it will create a precedent. I think China will welcome it, its a dual approach for its present predicament, what China need is time if the goal of self sufficiency is to be achieved. And also its a form of soft power, prying off SK or even Japan from American orbit is a side benefit it might create.If the Huawei Samsung experiment is successful, Chinese gov should persuade other chip designers in China to start "balancing" orders from TSMC to Samsung. In the meantime, they should also helps Samsung/Korea if they have aspiration to manufacture equipments provided that China will also have ability to manufacture those. At this point money should be least concern compared to access, don't be stingy.
The Americans were bold enough to spend more than 1T dollar to have F35, China too should be ready to spend hundreds of billion dollar as well.
@gelgoog yup and this opening move by Samsung is a master stroke, they knew they had lost the US market when the American choose TSMC, they need a new market to justify its huge investment and the Taiwanese had just handed to them on a silver platter. It will be foolish for them not to grab that opportunity.Korea maybe could do it, but Taiwan I seriously doubt it. Not without importing a lot of components.
With two remaining FABS able to produced those critical 5nm and below nodes. Samsung had just leverage its tech for the Chinese market before it close permanently in 2 years time as the Chinese introduces its EUVL. In gratitude I think the Chinese will allow Samsung to use it and become a partner in Chinese IC development further integrating themselves to the Chinese market.
Don't underestimate US government knack for sabotage. Even if it doesn't succeed it will keep trying until it works.
China depends on foreign tech is really on borrowed time. Nothing worst than successful products developed using foreign tech and all of sudden the rug got pulled out underneath due to sabotage by US government. That would generate huge disappointment. EU, Korea, Taiwan , Japan None of th can withstand US pressure ultimately. They might resist at the beginning. They will all succumb eventually. It's just a Fact.
Last time China made in 2025 is a mistake but under current atmosphere China Indeginous EUV 2030 should be greatly promoted. Because its Indeginous nothing to be sanctioned
Alot of people would be antsy about it and wants to open talk about it much like nuclear weapons control talk.
China depends on foreign tech is really on borrowed time. Nothing worst than successful products developed using foreign tech and all of sudden the rug got pulled out underneath due to sabotage by US government. That would generate huge disappointment. EU, Korea, Taiwan , Japan None of th can withstand US pressure ultimately. They might resist at the beginning. They will all succumb eventually. It's just a Fact.
Last time China made in 2025 is a mistake but under current atmosphere China Indeginous EUV 2030 should be greatly promoted. Because its Indeginous nothing to be sanctioned
Alot of people would be antsy about it and wants to open talk about it much like nuclear weapons control talk.
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antiterror13
Brigadier
I am leaning to the other side. I have a feeling both Korea and Taiwan got jealous when they heard China is developing its own EUV and now they want to get into the mix. What EUV they develope the west will not tolerate because that's their domain. So Taiwan and Korea are planning using China market to nurture their own EUV development.
At the same time they are in US camp as far as security concerned. I am leery of helping Korea and Taiwan further develope their tech by giving the crucial market support and they don't have their own and elsewhere.
Then again, China already had EUV prototype, and may come out EUV faster than Taiwan and Korea. So this would become a moot point.
Ultimately it's better off for China to decouple technologically not only from US but the west in general as well. It going to take some times.
China space tech and military already decoupled from the west.
Yeahh, I have been wondering what Fab (and what tech) that China use for military and space tech as those are totally decoupled from the West. Chinese military and Space is probably in the top 2 or 3 in the world (in general)
@Oldschool agreed with your assessment, the US may seized others tech and claimed it as their owned, the Chinese don't have that luxury but the strategy is the same, if you had been captivated by that market , you do anything to have it, its like a drug, the more you denied the more you become addicted.Don't underestimate US government knack for sabotage. Even if it doesn't succeed it will keep trying until it works.
China depends on foreign tech is really on borrowed time. Nothing worst than successful products developed using foreign tech and all of sudden the rug got pulled out underneath due to sabotage by US government. That would generate huge disappointment. EU, Korea, Taiwan , Japan None of th can withstand US pressure ultimately. They might resist at the beginning. They will all succumb eventually. It's just a Fact.
Last time China made in 2025 is a mistake but under current atmosphere China Indeginous EUV 2030 should be greatly promoted. Because its Indeginous nothing to be sanctioned
Alot of people would be antsy about it and wants to open talk about it much like nuclear weapons control talk.
Yeahh, I have been wondering what Fab (and what tech) that China use for military and space tech as those are totally decoupled from the West. Chinese military and Space is probably in the top 2 or 3 in the world (in general)
Cetc does everything. It's Huawei of the state firms.
It has lithography for 0.18um, 0.35um for power semiconductor and compound semiconductor such GaAs. 45nm for logic. It has plan to do EUV.
It has ion implantation and other equipments.
Naura provides many equipments as well. Chemical vapor deposition, atomic layer deposition, Chemical mechanical polishing, cleaning of wafer,
Those state firms are in Beijing.
@Oldschool agreed with your assessment, the US may seized others tech and claimed it as their owned, the Chinese don't have that luxury but the strategy is the same, if you had been captivated by that market , you do anything to have it, its like a drug, the more you denied the more you become addicted.
I said it before sabotage is US lawmakers speciality.
Look, because SMIC wants to buy some old DUV tech from ASML for expansion, US senators immediately want to stop it. From the Cotton camp. Even non EUV equipments not allowed! GOP senators don't care below or above 10nm.
If ASML obeyed again, it can kiss China market goodbye. It ought be banned.
SMIC is also dumb. Don't publish the news in public about the deal with ASML. It try to boost its stock by giving out some good news with US government relenting . Well they don't know GOP senators are waiting to ambush.
SMIC worry too much of its stock valuation. Not a good sign
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