Chinese semiconductor industry

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BlackWindMnt

Captain
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Actually i would say that the Australia situation was a message to the whole world. Seems that the EU got the message that China was prepared for its economy to feel pain if it meant safeguarding its interest.

So the EU folded, the RCEP countries got the message that you cant just ignore a 10m tall giant, and ultimately for the US, if you want to forcibly decouple fine, lets see who can better handle the pain.

Germany especially although it might sounds strange seems to be playing the EU card and hedging with Russia and China
I always thought italy would be the one to leave the EU next, but I wouldnt be surprised if Germany would be the one to break the EU in half and leave if it meant losing out on the SCO, BRI and EEC markets.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
Of course ASML isn't very interested in Gigaphotons light source since Cymer is an ASML subsidiary. It means less profit for them.
Plus if the Japanese manage to ramp up production of their light source then they might sell it to ASML's competitors.
That's why ASML bought Cymer in the first place. To get a monopoly on EUV.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
@WTAN will the Chinese FABS take the bait? why settle for the second best (ASML old model EUVL) if the Chinese one can be improve upon? I think SMIC may try but Huawei and others will definitely not having tasted the pain of sanction a lesson truly learned.
ASML will pull the old trick but with the recent sanctions many Chinese FABs have learnt a lesson and that is to stop using useless foreign equipment.
You are right.....the only company that may play along with this ASML EUVL Scam is SMIC.
The American Semiconductor Industry Association is getting pretty worried about lost sales to Chinese Customers and thats why they requested the twice annual meetings with the Chinese Government.
 

WTAN

Junior Member
Registered Member
Why can't China just use this for their indigenous EUV development?
Gigaphoton Japan has been frozen out of EUVL development by the US Government and ASML.
Strangely they have continued with Light Source development and are now planning a 300W LPP Light Source with Japanese Government support.
Gigaphoton wont sell its Light Source to China because it fears US Government sanctions.
Maybe they can license their technology to a Chinese company but this is also risky for them.
They could end up being the next US Government victim like Toshiba and Alsthom.
However Gigaphoton also knows that when China produces its own EUVL, it will be too late to enter the China market.
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
ASML will pull the old trick but with the recent sanctions many Chinese FABs have learnt a lesson and that is to stop using useless foreign equipment.
You are right.....the only company that may play along with this ASML EUVL Scam is SMIC.
The American Semiconductor Industry Association is getting pretty worried about lost sales to Chinese Customers and thats why they requested the twice annual meetings with the Chinese Government.
I could actually see some possibility of relaxing some IC restrictions at the Alaska meeting to show the Chinese companies that they could expect things to get better with the US and that is safe to buy american.

Small chance, but in my opinion it would be a tactical smart decision from the US
 

voyager1

Captain
Registered Member
Gigaphoton Japan has been frozen out of EUVL development by the US Government and ASML.
Strangely they have continued with Light Source development and are now planning a 300W LPP Light Source with Japanese Government support.
Gigaphoton wont sell its Light Source to China because it fears US Government sanctions.
Maybe they can license their technology to a Chinese company but this is also risky for them.
They could end up being the next US Government victim like Toshiba and Alsthom.
However Gigaphoton also knows that when China produces its own EUVL, it will be too late to enter the China market.
Well thats strange. If they dont want to sell to China then what are they going to do it. US/EU/Taiwan will use ASML, China i suppose would like to use it for research, South Korea is out of question with the semiconductor war they have between them.

So did they just invest all this money for nothing. Japan should have smelled the coffee a long time ago about where the future is but they must prefer to let their brand new equipment to stay in warehouses
 

HybridHypothesis

Junior Member
Registered Member
I could actually see some possibility of relaxing some IC restrictions at the Alaska meeting to show the Chinese companies that they could expect things to get better with the US and that is safe to buy american.

Small chance, but in my opinion it would be a tactical smart decision from the US
Blinken is going around calling Taiwan a "country". There is no way this meeting will turn out well imo
 

latenlazy

Brigadier
Well thats strange. If they dont want to sell to China then what are they going to do it. US/EU/Taiwan will use ASML, China i suppose would like to use it for research, South Korea is out of question with the semiconductor war they have between them.

So did they just invest all this money for nothing. Japan should have smelled the coffee a long time ago about where the future is but they must prefer to let their brand new equipment to stay in warehouses
They probably expect that long term the EUV market will grow big enough for other lithograph makers (mainly Japanese) to re-enter the EUV market, and they might be getting investments from other companies to continue development precisely with that expectation in mind. That said so long as there are no restrictions nothing prevents them for partnering with a non Japanese company. If Korea has aspirations to do EUV lithography then there’s nothing stopping Gigaphoton from working with a Korean company. Any industry sanctions from Japan against Korea tend to be selective and not broadbased.
 
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