Chinese semiconductor industry

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wxw456

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(Don't forget the role of Imagination Technologies in the MIPS saga.)

MIPS Technologies is finally out of bankruptcy. Oddly, they have apparently ditched the MIPS architecture and are going to RISC-V!

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"What a long, strange trip it’s been. MIPS Technologies no longer designs MIPS processors. Instead, it’s joined the RISC-V camp, abandoning its eponymous architecture for one that has strong historical and technical ties. The move apparently heralds the end of the road for MIPS as a CPU family, and a further (slight) diminution in the variety of processors available. It’s the final arc of an architecture."

Does anyone know why MIPS is dropping MIPS?
Answering this question will require some more technical background information to be explained. :)

An Instruction Set Architecture (ISA) is (to simplify things) how the programmer communicates with the processor. An instruction is a command given to the processor to perform an action. An instruction set is the complete list of instructions for the processor.

ISAs can be broadly catergorized into two different architectural approaches:
(1) Complex Instruction Set Computer (CISC)
The goal of a CISC architecture is to complete a task in as few lines of assembly code as possible. The execution of a single instruction in a CISC architecture may take multiple clock cycles. The x86 architecture is considered a CISC architecture.

(2) Reduced Instruction Set Computer (RISC)
The goal of a RISC architecture is to keep the instructions simple. This means that all instructions in a RISC architecture should complete in one clock cycle. ARM, MIPS, RISC-V architectures are considered RISC architectures.

I will try to illustrate the difference between CISC and RISC using a multiplication example. The Arithmetic Logic Unit (ALU) performs operations on bits stored in the registers. Generally we move values from memory into the registers, perform the operation using the ALU and finally move the result from the register back into memory. (this is simplified a lot)

(i) Suppose we have a 8x8 memory array. E.g. 1:2 refers to the bits stored at row 1 column 2 of the memory array.
(ii) Suppose we have registers A, B, C, D, E, F.

(1) CISC multiplication.
We could have the following assembly code:
MULT 1:2, 2:2 -> Multiply the values stored at memory location 1:2 and 2:2. Store the result in memory location 1:2.

(2) RISC multiplication.
We could have the following assembly code:
LOAD A, 1:2 -> Load the value stored in memory location 1:2 into register A.
LOAD B, 2:2 -> Load the value stored in memory location 2:2 into register B.
PROD A, B -> Compute the product of the values in register A and B and put the result in register A.
STORE 1:2, A -> Store the value from register A into memory location 1:2.

MULT, LOAD, PROD and STORE are all instructions in the ISA that have to be implemented in hardware. The RISC approach does not implement a MULT instruction in hardware and results in more lines of assembly code due to having to explicitly state the load and store operations related to the register. The CISC approach also needs to do the load and store operations for the register, but the MULT instruction has all that implemented in the hardware.

At this point you might think isn't CISC just better because it has less assembly code? Introducing the performance equation:

time/program = (time/cycle) * (cycles/instruction) * (instructions/program)

Clock Time (time/cycle) can be reduced when transistor sizes decrease.

Clocks Per Instruction (cycles/instruction) is the average number of cycles to perform a single instruction. CISC architectures generally have more complex instructions that take more clock cycles to complete than RISC architectures.

Instruction Count (instructions/program) is the number of instructions in a program. In the previous example the CISC performed multiplication in a single MULT instruction, but the RISC architecture needed four instructions to complete a multiplication.

So to summarize CISC optimizes the instruction count at the cost of clocks per instruction, but RISC optimizes the clocks per instruction at the cost of instruction count.

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MIPS and RISC-V are both broadly classified as RISC type ISAs. RISC-V is an attempt to take lessons learned from previous RISC type ISAs (including MIPS) and create an improved and open-source RISC type ISA. From a technical context MIPS Technologies abandoning MIPS and moving to RISC-V can be viewed as moving forward with developing an improved RISC-ISA.

From a commercial context, MIPS Technologies is company that needs to make money. MIPS Technologies doesn't even design it's own hardware and only licences the MIPS architecture. The last Western commercial MIPS CPU was the 28nm Warrior series CPUs which very few people used. Only Loongson is still producing commercial MIPS compatible CPUs and there's a good chance Loongson don't even need to pay MIPS Technologies money for the license.

Loongson has spent a long time developing its own ISA and micro-architecture. For example, the 28nm Loongson 3A4000 commercial chip is compatible with the MIPS64 Release 5 ISA as well as its own self-developed LoongISA 2.0 ISA. All this is implemented in hardware with its GS464EV micro-architecture (micro-architecture is how the ISA is implemented in hardware, you can have different micro-architectures implement the same ISA).
 

vincent

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I think it is easier to implement branching and pipelining (execution prediction) with RISC
 

Nutrient

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If your goal is to never be betrayed then trusting someone who just hurt you is foolish. If your goal is to get something from the other side to meet your objectives there’s nothing wrong with negotiating deals. Even if they fall apart later you will get what you need in the present. China may have gotten betrayed by the US during Trump’s trade war but China also benefited a whole lot from economic coupling with the US before then, much more than it could have on its own and much more than it lost from the punctuation of economy warfare. There’s nothing wrong with China striking deals and building relationships again with US actors so long as it can actually secure something it needs. “Trust” need not to be foolproof and eternal for it to yield value.

Yes, some Chinese companies could be lazy and continue buying from the US, even now. However, if the lazy companies do that, they must know that they are stunting the growth of local suppliers. Without a decent local ecosystem to fall back on, the lazy companies would suffer heavily if another Trump (or even Trump himself, after 2024) sanctioned them.

So my advice to the lazy companies would be to invest in the growth of local sources, so they will be available in hard times.

Having already seen ZTE's near-death experience from US sanctions, the lazy companies are ignoring the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". Do they really want to risk a second round of US sanctions without a safety net?
 
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ansy1968

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Yes, some Chinese companies could be lazy and continue buying from the US, even now. However, if the lazy companies do that, they must know that they are stunting the growth of local suppliers. Without a decent local ecosystem to fall back on, the lazy companies would suffer heavily if another Trump (or even Trump himself, after 2024) sanctioned them.

So my advice would be to invest in the growth of local companies, who will support you in hard times.

Having already seen ZTE's near-death experience from US sanctions, the lazy companies are ignoring the saying "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me". Do they really want to risk a second round of US sanctions?
@Nutrient I think the message is being heard loud and clear, they need time to decouple as they looked for alternatives. So within 5 years hopefully those domestic equivalent can produce quality product equaling or surpassing their foreign counterpart.
 

foofy

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@Nutrient I think the message is being heard loud and clear, they need time to decouple as they looked for alternatives. So within 5 years hopefully those domestic equivalent can produce quality product equaling or surpassing their foreign counterpart.
Do not underestimate the power of white man's middle man 买办. They are hard to change. Center government should have just sacked them all.
 

Nutrient

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@Nutrient I think the message is being heard loud and clear, they need time to decouple as they looked for alternatives. So within 5 years hopefully those domestic equivalent can produce quality product equaling or surpassing their foreign counterpart.
The message is that technological self-sufficiency is necessary for China. What I fear is that the message is not being heard as loudly or as clearly as it should be, if the US/China "working group" succeeds.

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(Thanks to @voyager1 for this link.)

Perhaps the larger companies in China have heard the message; they can afford to take a longer, more strategic view. They would help the local ecosystem grow.

However, the many, many tiny companies can be very short-sighted; their horizons may not go past next week. For the smaller companies, the American counter-message ("We can make your life easier, right now!") could be extremely seductive. Perhaps some action from China's government (like an import tariff on US chips) will be necessary.
 
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ansy1968

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The message is that technological self-sufficiency is necessary for China. What I fear is that the message is not being heard as loudly or as clearly as it should be, if the US/China "working group" succeeds.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

(Thanks to @voyager1 for this link.)

Perhaps the large companies in China have heard the message; they can afford to take a longer, more strategic view. They would help the local ecosystem grow.

However, the many, many tiny companies can be very short-sighted; their horizons may not go past next week. For the smaller companies, the American counter-message ("We can make your life easier, right now!") could be extremely seductive. Perhaps some action from China's government (like an import tariff on US chips) will be necessary.
@Nutrient Bro my take on the issue, the one who is panicking is the US, they hold the stronger hand why bother holding a negotiation. Cause they pissed off their biggest customer and the trust as you said is broken. Now seeing the Chinese resolved really bother them big time especially the self sufficiency part. They want a part of that pie too and here the Chinese can leverage that and use a two prong approach or strategy regarding its IC development.
 

Nutrient

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[A decent overview of Instruction Set Architectures]

From a commercial context, MIPS Technologies is company that needs to make money. MIPS Technologies doesn't even design it's own hardware and only licences the MIPS architecture. The last Western commercial MIPS CPU was the 28nm Warrior series CPUs which very few people used. Only Loongson is still producing commercial MIPS compatible CPUs and there's a good chance Loongson don't even need to pay MIPS Technologies money for the license.

Yes, perhaps the bankruptcy of MIPS Technologies has taught them that there isn't much money in the MIPS world anymore. I still wonder why they are dropping their own architecture. What value can they possibly add to the RISC-V world, that other people would pay them for? What can they do that other companies like Huawei and Alibaba can't?
 
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