Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

BlackWindMnt

Captain
Registered Member
Provided that China keeps up its population size yes.

But if China's population falls to 750 million and India + the Western world join together in an alliance while China doesn't ally with anyone, the combined population of the latter could be ~2 billion and dwarf China's. Hence I advocate China to set a population target/floor and work to ally itself with ASEAN, Russia, Pakistan, Iran, and other willing states to cooperate on technology and unify markets.
Acting as if china's population will plummet in the next two decade, China's isn't the only one with population decline the west also has this problem the EU is graying up fast, US population growth also declined.

China can always open up a bit for professional Asians, I would bet that China is the more attractive place to be 20 years from now, given it closer to family.

Maybe a declining population might be a good thing if the transition can be managed well. Something to around 1 billion with 80+% living in urban environments being more productive then current generation worker.

Can India even manage to create enough jobs let alone high tech jobs. There's nothing more dangerous for a society then a mob of 16~30 year old males being bored and jobless.
 

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
I would say self sufficient at technology achievable. Better than the west in tech, that's a long shot. Current is a great sample, China's self suffiency at 28nm stacking against west EUV 5nm.
That's the card China has but it still can managed
You have to look at realistic example to make projections. Projection cannot be made based on fantasy

Common sense says the earth only have limited resources, if China has 20x population over US, it won't have 20x economy

Just look at the R&D spending in China yourself, and do a few projections for 5-10 years time.
You end up with truly tremendous increases - enough to fund the development of every tech - given enough time.

Common sense also says that if different countries are competing for resources on a open market, then each person should end up consuming the same amount of resources.

But if a country is significantly larger in terms of economic heft or military influence, then that country can get preferential treatment or more control. So theoretically a larger China could ensure that the smaller USA has fewer resources available per person.

After all, it's what the US has done for many years when it was the biggest country around.
Look at the effects of sanctions that the US has placed on different countries like Cuba or the Eastern Bloc.
Or when a jealous USA initiated trade wars against democratic Japan, because Japan was seen as the principal global rival.

Now, US policy is to keep China technologically backward and poor.
And China has a very long memory.
 
Last edited:

AndrewS

Brigadier
Registered Member
Maybe a declining population might be a good thing if the transition can be managed well. Something to around 1 billion with 80+% living in urban environments being more productive then current generation worker.

Can India even manage to create enough jobs let alone high tech jobs. There's nothing more dangerous for a society then a mob of 16~30 year old males being bored and jobless.

For the past 10 years, the number of jobs in India has been shrinking.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 
  • Haha
Reactions: JSL

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


“This (sale) is a slap in the face to the NSCAI recommendations and shows how big the gap with allies is on these issue,” a U.S. semiconductor executive said on condition of anonymity.

Fuck US semi executives, anonymous coward

A source close to President Joe Biden’s administration, however, said the administration was more focused on the next wave of technological competition with China.

“This is akin to trying to prevent them from getting a flip-phone. We’re much more interested in the technologies of tomorrow,” the person said.
I guess Biden's people are ok with DUV exports
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
Huawei has about 700 car related patents, started research since 2009.

Changan Automobile Co. is working with China’s largest electric vehicle battery supplier, CATL, and leading communication equipment maker Huawei Technologies to develop high-end EVs, a top executive said.

It will use Huawei drive one system and OS and cock pit control.

Huawei 45nm fab will most of the chips for this drive one controls.

Photonic fab will make Lidar system
±+±++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Huawei’s first all-in-one Electric Drive System, DriveOne launched

Huawei’s all-in-one electric drive system equipped with seven mechanical and power components: Micro Control Unit (MCU), Motor, Reducer, DC Converter (DCDC), On-board Charger (OBC), Power Distribution Unit (PDU), and Battery Control Unit (BCU).

It is reported that the DriveOne can help in minimizing the vehicle power domain, save 220mm in the Z-direction, reduce 2 mounting brackets, shorten writing harness by 5m, reduce 3 connectors, reduce water nozzles, and 2 water pipes.

Huawei discloses that it is the industry’s first high-voltage all-in-one electric drive system that can meet the 2C fast-charging experience and offer 200km range in 10 minutes of charging. It is said to be more efficient, more accurate, and more power-efficient than the previous similar solutions.

Huawei also claimed that it is the industry’s first high-voltage all-in-one electric drive system, which can meet the 2C fast charging experience and provide a battery life of 200km in 10minutes. It is said to be more efficient, more accurate, and more power-efficient than the previous similar solutions

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20210303-161653.png
    Screenshot_20210303-161653.png
    496.7 KB · Views: 13
Last edited:

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Well look like SMIC still has breathing space until 2021 enough time for domestic supplier to catch up
"This (sale) is a slap in the face to the NSCAI recommendations and shows how big the gap with allies is on these issue," a U.S. semiconductor executive said on condition of anonymity.

ASML extends sales deal with Chinese chipmaker SMIC to end of 2021​


Stephen Nellis
Wed, March 3, 2021, 9:25 AM


By Stephen Nellis
(Reuters) - ASML Holding NV has extended a deal to sell chip manufacturing equipment to Semiconductor Manufacturing International Corp, China's largest chipmaker, until the end of this year, the Dutch company said in a statement on Wednesday.

ASML made the statement after SMIC on Wednesday disclosed a volume purchase agreement under which it has already spent $1.2 billion with the toolmaker. In a clarifying statement issued several hours later, ASML said the agreement began in 2018 and was slated to expire at the end of 2020, but the two companies agreed in February to extend the deal to the end of this year.

In December, SMIC was one of dozens of firms put on a U.S. blacklist that required American semiconductor manufacturing equipment firms such as Applied Materials Inc and Lam Research Corp to obtain a license before exporting products to the chipmaker.

The U.S. Commerce Department said the action against SMIC stemmed from China's efforts to harness civilian technologies for military purposes and evidence of activities between SMIC and Chinese military industrial companies of concern. The rules would still allow the shipment of tools for making less advanced chips.
ASML, which is based in the Netherlands and is the world's largest supplier of lithography equipment for making chips, produces a critical tool required to manufacture advanced chips: an extreme ultraviolet lithography, or EUV, machine.

In 2019, the Trump administration pressed Dutch officials
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
to cancel a sale of an EUV machine to SMIC. At that time, Dutch officials declined to renew a license needed to ship the tool. Dutch officials had not approved a license to ship an EUV tool to China as of late February, according to government records.

In its statement on Wednesday, ASML said the volume purchase deal with SMIC related to an older technology called deep ultraviolet lithography, or DUV.
In January, ASML Chief Executive Peter Wennik said the company could see "significant upside" selling older chipmaking technology to China if allowed by government officials to do so. China accounted for 17% of ASML's 14 billion euros in 2020 sales.

On Monday, the U.S. National Security Commission on Artificial Intelligence, or NSCAI, recommended that the United States coordinate with the Netherlands and Japan to deny export licenses to China for key chipmaking equipment.

"This (sale) is a slap in the face to the NSCAI recommendations and shows how big the gap with allies is on these issue," a U.S. semiconductor executive said on condition of anonymity.
@Hendrik_2000 mostly spare parts?
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
SMIC is not really the Vanguard of Chinese tech. It has too much Taiwanese influence. They rather focus on profitability and working with the western camp.

If not by the insistence of Beijing government to establish de Americanized fab in Beijing. it would not hook up with smee.

All its current tools are from the west.

On the other hand, YMTC is the one most active in using domestic equipments. Next is CMXT.

It doesn't supply Huawei anymore on 14nm.

The vanguard of Chinese tech now is Huawei, leader of the pack.

Next is ymtc, cmxt, byd, silan, sanan
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
Yes that is right. The US will be the biggest loser if there is a Chip and Semiconductor Embargo on China.
Local Chinese companies will eventually take over the market share of US and foreign companies in Chips and Semiconductor equipment.
China is still the largest market for Semiconductors worldwide and this move by the US will hit US Companies and shrink their R&D Budgets.
The US forcing Japan and EU to toe the line is not going to work as at the end of the day it is profits and jobs on the line.
China will also retaliate by putting these foreign companies on the entity list which will result in big fines and a ban.
Looks like Trumps low IQ Advisors have even influenced Biden.
It is crucial for China to develop 2 core technologies which is EUV Lithography and Commercial High Bypass Turbofans.
Once these 2 crucial tech is developed, China is pretty much independant technologically.
Out of topic, but a way for China to defend itself from a Genocidal US Empire is to increase its number of nuclear missiles and probably forge a military Alliance with Russia. The China Russia nuclear missile capability will being peace.
But of course the US will still cause carnage to the rest of the World, rest assured.
@WTAN It already has, If China goes down the whole world goes down, believe it or not China is now holding the beacon (sorry lady liberty your underwear doesn't look that attractive ;) ). For me Biden administration had a soft spot for the Chinese, they had an unfinished business with the Russian regarding Ukraine (they wanted Sevastopol back), So their target is Russia by attacking its proxy Syria. The NATO recent announcement of troop increase in Iraq is sign they will do that. So there is an understanding but not an alliance yet, the Chinese still need the west for the markets until its DUAL CIRCULATION strategy is complete. Like I said the Russia, China and Iran axis is a very powerful one, and it protected their flanks and increase their strategic depth. And their animosity against Russia had gain China a strategic advantage even greater than their plan of cutting of the tech.
 

Oldschool

Junior Member
Registered Member
SMIC is not really the Vanguard of Chinese tech. It has too much Taiwanese influence. They rather focus on profitability and working with the western camp.

If not by the insistence of Beijing government to establish de Americanized fab in Beijing. it would not hook up with smee.

All its current tools are from the west.

On the other hand, YMTC is the one most active in using domestic equipments. Next is CMXT.

It doesn't supply Huawei anymore on 14nm.

The vanguard of Chinese tech now is Huawei, leader of the pack.

Next is ymtc, cmxt, byd, silan, sanan
Think about why US relaxed the sanction on SMIC during this shortage.

SMIC is Not servicing China most important player in Huawei.

Rather US relaxed the sanctions so it can service US companies inside China.

SMIC has all the signs that it will obey US rules faithfully like a ZTE, Lenovo
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
SMIC does not have much choice right now if they want to have leading edge fabrication facilities.
Their intent was always to compete with leading edge in their market which is TSMC.

I think the Chinese government needs to put the proper incentives in place for more Chinese fabs to use Chinese tools.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top