Chinese semiconductor industry

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FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
"The difference is the Shanghai Synchrotron has 16 beamlines, not 1, and are energy tunable."

I wonder if you could clarify whether those 16 beamlines could each of them feed one separate litography assembly line. If yes, and one could spread the cost among 16 different equipments, an equivalent to the Shangai Synchrotron would cost a "mere" US 10 million per litography machine.

If this is the case, I see no point whatsoever in pursuing to reproduce the lighting source used by ASML. That lighting source only makes sense if you have to transport the whole ensemble across the ocean.

As you say "What exactly is economical about using a 100 kW CO2 laser that weighs 10000+ kgs alone to shoot liquid tin droplets in vacuum that's in another 10+ ton system?"

Using a synchrotron source you could build the whole assembly lines as appendixes adjacent to the synchrotron itself, since no one will have to move the equipment anywhere else.

I wonder if you would need reflecting mirrors or just plain lenses to imprint the wafers. The picture below seems to say no mirrors, but obviously this is a gross over simplification.

If no mirrors are needed, there is no need for Zeiss optics.


View attachment 119116View attachment 119116
as @latenlazy said, the problem with synchrotron light sources is:

1. for ASML it is useless because they can't sell it as a movable instrument so they didn't even consider it
2. it constrains your fab layout options due to its size.

For a government fab, big synchrotron source might be OK, but for a commercial fab, they can't take the risk of tying facility location to a synchrotron building project and then waiting for the synchrotron to be validated before starting any fab construction, they need something modular that just goes in and runs (to start the actual fab qualification). In short, it's a business problem - a very valid business problem though.

brightness at the beamline is not that big of a problem I think, since the source brightness is usually ridiculous, like kW level.

that's why you need a small synchrotron with high brightness. luckily you have a very high budget to work with since the LPP EUV light source cost is already ridiculous, you just have to be not too much worse at lower cost.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member

600 million yuan major project, Yanyijin high-purity sputtering target is put into production​


In September 20, the commissioning ceremony of the high-purity sputtering target project for integrated circuits was held. Zhao Xiaochen, Secretary of the Party Committee and Chairman of China Youyan Technology Group Co., Ltd., attended the ceremony and announced the start of production.
Among the "List of Key Projects at Municipal Level and Above in 2022" released by the Dezhou Municipal People's Government are the high-purity sputtering target production project for integrated circuits of Yanyijin New Materials (Shandong) Co., Ltd., and Shandong Youyan Ace Semiconductor Materials Co., Ltd. The industrialization project of large silicon wafers for 12-inch integrated circuits is on the list. On May 16, 2022, the groundbreaking ceremony for key projects in Tianqu New District, Dezhou, was held, including Shandong Youyan Ace 12-inch silicon wafer project, Youyan Yijin high-purity sputtering target project, etc.
It is reported that the construction unit of Youyan Yijin High Purity Sputtering Target Project is Youyan Yijin New Materials Co., Ltd., with a total investment of 600 million yuan.
According to public information, Texas Tianqu New District regards the electronic information and integrated circuit industries as the "No. 1 industrial chain" and strives to build a nationally important integrated circuit key material base including silicon wafers and targets. Yingwang Technology, Hengxin Electronics, A large number of projects such as Zhongmingan LCD modules have been launched one after another.

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ZeroAndOne

Just Hatched
Registered Member
But US workers and unions can.

You can take American workers to a fab, but you can't make them work.

Not sure if anyone has posted this before. Sorry if someone has already done so.

Apple chips made in the US still require assembly in Taiwan, report suggests​


Apple chief Tim Cook previously announced that the tech giant will be purchasing chips for its iPhones, Macs and other key products made in Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company's (TSMC) new factory in Phoenix, Arizona. It seemed like a huge win for the Biden administration, which signs the
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last year to boost manufacturing in the US and lessen its reliance on overseas suppliers. Now,
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has reported that even though the components for Apple's chips will be manufactured in the US, they'll still have to be sent back to TSMC's home country for assembly.

Apparently, the manufacturer's factory in Arizona doesn't have the facilities to package its customers' more advanced chips. "Packaging" is what you call the final stage of fabrication, wherein the chip's components are assembled inside a housing as close together as possible to enhance speed and power efficiency. The iPhone, in particular, has been using a packaging method developed by TSMC since 2016. Chips for iPads and Macs can be packaged outside of Taiwan, but the iPhone's will have to be assembled in the country.

The Information says Apple is the manufacturer's only customer using its packaging method at high volumes, but TSMC has other clients, including NVIDIA, AMD and Tesla. It's unclear how many of those companies' chip models will have to be sent back to Taiwan for packaging, but they reportedly include chips for artificial intelligence, including
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. The publication also previously
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that Google will be using TSMC's advanced packaging used on the iPhone for its future Pixel phones.

The government set aside over $50 billion in funding under the CHIPS Act to provide subsidies for companies building chip factories in the US. President Joe Biden and his administration are encouraging the growth of the US semiconductor industry to mitigate fallout from the growing tension between the United States and China over Taiwan. In August, the president even
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that limits American investments in Chinese tech firms dealing with semiconductors, quantum computing and artificial intelligence.

Seeing as the government recently
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(PDF) a National Advanced Packaging Manufacturing program to boost chip packaging in the US, it's aware of the need to bring the process into the country, as well. Apple and all the aforementioned TSMC clients aren't the only companies whose chips have to be sent overseas for assembly, since manufacturers aren't making enough products in the US to justify building packaging facilities in the country. However, that program is only getting $2.5 billion in funding under the CHIPS Act, and the Institute of Printed Circuits told the publication that the amount shows packaging isn't being prioritized. As for TSMC, The Information's sources said it has no plans to build packaging facilities in the US due to the huge costs involved, and any future packaging method it develops will most likely be offered in Taiwan.

Link:
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Denebola

Just Hatched
Registered Member
as @latenlazy said, the problem with synchrotron light sources is:

1. for ASML it is useless because they can't sell it as a movable instrument so they didn't even consider it
2. it constrains your fab layout options due to its size.

For a government fab, big synchrotron source might be OK, but for a commercial fab, they can't take the risk of tying facility location to a synchrotron building project and then waiting for the synchrotron to be validated before starting any fab construction, they need something modular that just goes in and runs (to start the actual fab qualification). In short, it's a business problem - a very valid business problem though.

brightness at the beamline is not that big of a problem I think, since the source brightness is usually ridiculous, like kW level.

that's why you need a small synchrotron with high brightness. luckily you have a very high budget to work with since the LPP EUV light source cost is already ridiculous, you just have to be not too much worse at lower cost.
Very interesting, I read an article on this in quora:
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The western media of course ignores SSMB, treating ASML's LPP machines as the modern-day Maginot line that cannot be breached.
 

Phead128

Captain
Staff member
Moderator - World Affairs
I hope China is prepared for this. Sometimes I think the Huawei's P60 announcement has brought new pressure for China now.
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Knowing Americans, there will be huge loopholes (e.g., unlimited
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for SK firms) or not even enforced (e.g., BIS
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to blacklisted Chinese companies) or end up dissuading allied states from joining at all (see
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as Korean alternative)

You can even see it in the details:
It also restricts recipients from some joint research or technology licensing efforts with foreign entities of concern but allows for international standards, patent licensing, and utilizing foundry and packaging services.
"Joint ventures" were already dead by this late stage of tech war.
The final rules prohibit material expansion of semiconductor manufacturing capacity for leading-edge and advanced facilities in foreign countries of concern for 10 years. It also clarifies wafer production is included within semiconductor manufacturing.
Zero expansion for "leading-edge", TSMC and Samsung do not even put their leading-edge in mainland China, and Chinese domestics are replacing foreign supply in leading edge and even legacy nodes.
The final rule ties expanded semiconductor manufacturing capacity to adding cleanroom or other physical space, defining material expansions as increasing production capacity by more than 5%.

The rule prohibits recipients from adding new cleanroom space or production lines that result in expanding a facility’s production capacity beyond 10%.
Global CapEx is reduced, see TSMC delaying equipment deliveries, fab delays, Intel layoffs, Intel reduced capex, entire semiconductor industry revenue downturn, Micron layoffs in Shanghai, etc.... particularly as domestic Chinese production ramps up to replace foreign supply.... so these 5% or 10% over next 10 years likely already built in the global cap-ex downturn and demand reduction and Chinese domestic ramping up.

All this is due to South Koreans sounding alarm that US "guardrail" provisions unnecessary burdens it's existing mainland facility operations, and US has revised the guardrails to make them less burdensome, even extending exemption waivers for South Korea for multi-years thus far.
“The Republic of Korea believes the ‘guardrail provisions’ should not be implemented in a manner that imposes an unreasonable burden on companies investing in the United States,” South Korea said in a statement on the proposed funding rules of the Chips Act.

“In this vein, the RoK requests the US government to review the proposed rule’s current definitions of ‘material expansion’, ‘legacy semiconductor’ and other key terms,
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