Chinese semiconductor industry

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tphuang

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Horizontally stacked nanosheets are emerging as an industry consensus for 5nm, according to IBM. These devices start with alternating layers of silicon and silicon germanium (SiGe), patterned into pillars.


Creating the initial Si/SiGe heterostructure is straightforward, and pillar patterning is similar to fin fabrication. The next several steps are unique to
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, though. An indentation in the SiGe layers makes room for an inner spacer between the source/drain, which will eventually be deposited next to the pillar and the space where the gate will be. This spacer defines the gate width. Then, once the inner spacers are in place, a channel release etch removes the SiGe.
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deposits the gate dielectric and metal into the spaces between the silicon nanosheets.

looks like SiGe is where industry is going with GAAFet.

TSMC uses Ge
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Silicon has been the transistor channel material of choice throughout all CMOS technology generations up until our 7nm node. TSMC’s 5nm technology is the first advanced logic production technology featuring SiGe as the channel material for p-type FinFET.
TSMC is actively exploring alternative transistor channel materials as an additional degree of freedom in the design of high performance and low power devices. Silicon-germanium and germanium are examples of TSMC’s exploratory research work, which has been extensively published and in some cases recognized as highlights in international conferences.

We will see how this goes

If China is determined to shut this off, we will see if it is able to take advantage of having its own Ge resources
 

tokenanalyst

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It's widely embraced because it is both objective and correct. Without EUV, the Chinese semiconductor industry hits a hard stop no matter how capable other parts of it are, and truth be told the DUV lithography part isn't great either.

It would be better if the author wrote about the progress being made here and when a completely indigenous supply chain will be ready rather than some cope about lithography being secondary and a non-sequitur about AI. AI doesn't run on air, it runs on semiconductors - very capable ones - and Chinese AI will be hobbled if China can't supply itself with the semiconductors it needs.
EUV is kind of tricky, because as now doesn't give the kind of WPH of immersion lithography but because the reduced CD (13nm) it require less layers to make a chip, but still is necessary multiple patterning.
Advance chips can still be make using immersion lithography because the key of making multiple layers of very small features is not necessary the CD but accuracy, is about having pretty good alignment and accurate nano positioning, that is one of the hard parts.

Lithography is important but it's not the only area that needed to be developed. You cannot achieve chip independence with just lithography. The supply chain for producing advanced chips is unimaginably complex and expansive, and funds, resources, and talent must be allocated across multiple industries and countless technologies in order to indigenize the entire supply chain. Even the supply chain and technological dependencies for lithography itself is very complicated, ie light sources, chemicals, optics, and goes far beyond simply creating the final machines. Most critical goal should be mastery and mass production of fully indigenous DUVi machines within next 1-2 years, and prototype EUV machines shortly after.
In most areas they are advancing a breakneck speeds, as one guy said when he was in SEMICON China 2023 "I saw deglobalization at Semicon China", they are creating a big semiconductor supply chain that could have a global impact to much of the dismay of the US think tankers.
Lithography is the most opaque, I don't know what is the issue with ASML, but there is a lot of breakthroughs under the hood so the lithography supply chain is advancing quickly with the mass production of sub-systems, materials and components by China big lithography players already happening or starting soon.
Also The EUV supply Chain is starting to heat up so we should expect breakthroughs in the coming years.

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tphuang

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 28nm (and below) supply chain is only "complete" in the sense that all of the research is done. All of these companies still need to expand production and actually make all of these things in quantity.

Chinese fabs are still dominated by foreign machines and inputs, and it'll take a while before Chinese alternatives sell enough product to saturate the Chinese market.

Is my understanding of the situation correct?
Well, 28nm or even 14nm development have been done already from what I can see. Now, fabs (in this case SMIC) still has to validate them and put them in its process. 2023 was supposed to be year where SMIC has ASML + domestic production line. Given the newness of some of these domestic systems, SMIC will likely want to validate them for less advanced process first.

I don't think it matter what chineses fabs are using right now. It matters whether their capacity expansions can be supported by domestic SMEs. I think that should be doable. After all, there is very little 28nm expansion by Chinese fabs. The most advanced outside of SMIC (and a little from HLMC) are 40nm process. There just isn't need for that many fabs to all do 28nm when there are incumbent heavy weights like TSMC and UMC in China. You may ask why China allows Taiwanese fabs to expand so much on mainland. That is a good question, but I think the govt wants as much chip production on mainland as possible, even if its by foreign companies
 

FairAndUnbiased

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That article about SMEE 28nm litho is non-news. It only rehashes the same things we have been hearing for over two years. What we have been waiting for is to see it used in actual production. But if we are to believe rumors, even the 90nm machine tool which supposedly is available by SMEE is not used in production by any fab.

As for GAA FET. I never heard of it using germanium or gallium at all. It is just a transistor architecture. It literally means Gate All Around Field Effect Transistor. So I do not know what you are talking about. The ban on germanium and gallium will most likely affect things like RF chips and space based solar panels. Not regular high end logic chips. If China really, really wanted to stop production at TSMC, then they should do like Russia and ban exports of neon gas.
SiGe is used for nanosheet GAAFET.

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This is why the Ge ban is hugely devastating, not just the Ga ban. This makes it cost prohibitive to even do GAAFET research, much less bring it to production.
 

tokenanalyst

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 28nm (and below) supply chain is only "complete" in the sense that all of the research is done. All of these companies still need to expand production and actually make all of these things in quantity.
They already have production tools in most areas, we have a graph in this thread about that.
Chinese fabs are still dominated by foreign machines and inputs, and it'll take a while before Chinese alternatives sell enough product to saturate the Chinese market.

Is my understanding of the situation correct?
Depends what you are referring, if it is already installed equipment before 2022, I guess they are not going to throw those into the sea, they are going to continually use those as much they can, although I hear YMTC may very well throw those into the sea and replace it domestic alternatives, because they also bought services from US companies for those tools.
So most of the tools sold in China are probably direct purchases from Chinese semiconductor tools, materials, software and services providers if we consider how fast the companies in the supply chain are growing and the rest are probably coming from non US companies or tools made in South East Asia.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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looks like SiGe is where industry is going with GAAFet.

TSMC uses Ge
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We will see how this goes

If China is determined to shut this off, we will see if it is able to take advantage of having its own Ge resources
The point of SiGe is to be able to create a miscible alloy of Si and Ge as to tune the strain between epitaxial layers since SiGe alloy and pure Si will have the same chemical bonding, but slightly different lattice spacing in the crystal. The lattice spacing difference cannot be too big or too small. Too big and the interface delaminates from the substrate crystal, too small and nothing happens.

The strained silicon at the epitaxial interface has different electronic properties than the bulk silicon.

This is actually used in most sub-130 nm logic chips so it's even more devastating to lose Ge than just leading edge logic.

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gelgoog

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How much actual Germanium is used in those SiGe nanosheets? I doubt it is that much. As for strained silicon, that likely uses even less of it. These are likely minute amounts of what is not pure Germanium applied with a CVD process.
Not whole wafers of it like what is done with gallium in some applications.
 

tphuang

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How much actual Germanium is used in those SiGe nanosheets? I doubt it is that much. As for strained silicon, that likely uses even less of it. These are likely minute amounts of what is not pure Germanium applied with a CVD process.
Not whole wafers of it like what is done with gallium in some applications.
There are 40t export by China and 40t total production by other countries. Now, you take China & Russia's export off the market and you consider that US military will make sure to grab the x ton it needs for its military and national security stuff.

How much do you think there is left for everyone else? I did a search and each 12-inch wafer is 125g. TSMC alone has 120k wpm of capacity for 4/5nm
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Let's say bw TSMC/Samsung, they want to produce 120k wpm of 5nm and more advanced wafers a month and need Ge or SiGe. They will need about 120k * .0125 * 12 = 180t of silicon wafers a year for that

Now even if you need 1/20th that mass of Ge for the layers, that would still be 10t needed for advanced chipmaking. Where are all these Ge coming from? Natsec folks will make sure they get their share of Ge before anyone else does.

And even if TSMC/Samsung gets their Ge eventually, it will still be a disruption to their supply chain while they figure out how they can source Ge.
 

tphuang

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The point of SiGe is to be able to create a miscible alloy of Si and Ge as to tune the strain between epitaxial layers since SiGe alloy and pure Si will have the same chemical bonding, but slightly different lattice spacing in the crystal. The lattice spacing difference cannot be too big or too small. Too big and the interface delaminates from the substrate crystal, too small and nothing happens.

The strained silicon at the epitaxial interface has different electronic properties than the bulk silicon.

This is actually used in most sub-130 nm logic chips so it's even more devastating to lose Ge than just leading edge logic.

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The question is how much of the processes use Ge and whether they can replaced? And if they can get replaced, how much does that hurt yield and production for the near term? Who does it affect the most?

Based on your link, it seems like straining can be done silicon nitride
 

FairAndUnbiased

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The question is how much of the processes use Ge and whether they can replaced? And if they can get replaced, how much does that hurt yield and production for the near term? Who does it affect the most?

Based on your link, it seems like straining can be done silicon nitride
Unless you can invent a new group 4 element, Ge is kind of irreplaceable. There's nitride strain engineering processes but it's not a 1:1 replacement as the nitride is an insulator, not a semiconductor, and is a stoichiometric compound, not a miscible alloy. So they may have to start new device architecture for anything using Ge.
 
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