Of course. There's no doubt Huawei is researching everything as far as they can. I'm just trying to make sure people understand just throwing money into a pit to make these chips isn't going to solve the problem. It's not about making chips, it's about making them commercially viable. That's what the actual problem is. I mean in fairness I'm only talking about China. China is probably one of a handful of countries that can even make the chips. So their problem is making it commercially viable. To look at another country, Russia, they're so far behind that just making the chips is a herculean task. Even so, they've made chips using X-Rays already. So again, the real difficulty is in commercial viability.
Chinese semiconductor industry
- Thread starter Hendrik_2000
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@staplez You are really mixed up. China has not manufactured any chips at 3nm that we know of. The most advanced process in China is the 7nm at SMIC. And even then it is only good for small cryptomining chips. The most advanced process which can be mass produced by SMIC in quantity is more like 10nm.
Russia is basically stuck at 90nm. Mikron has a 65nm process but it is basically useless for producing anything at volume. It is just a curiosity.
Then again, 90nm is more advanced than the initial chips used in the F-35. So the process is clearly no impediment for most military hardware in use today.
Russia is basically stuck at 90nm. Mikron has a 65nm process but it is basically useless for producing anything at volume. It is just a curiosity.
Then again, 90nm is more advanced than the initial chips used in the F-35. So the process is clearly no impediment for most military hardware in use today.
You guys are gonna drive me crazy. 7nm was found in a commercially produced chip. Unless you believe for a moment that something that is commercially produced is the farthest a country can get, and there's no such thing as R&D and there's no lab work before commercial viability, then you already know they're beyond 7nm.
In 2019, China already created a EUV lithography machine that could produce chips. But it was never commercially viable. They're still working on it. I don't know if it will become commercially viable, but again, they were able to produce chips with it. China is farther than 7nm for sure. The problem again is it's not commercially viable at this point.
Let's just use SMEE as an example. They've been working on their SA800 for about 10 years now. Do you really think in all this time it's never printed a chip? Of course it has, probably many many chips. The problem is it wasn't efficient enough to be commercially viable. It's getting to that point now, and that's exciting, but we have to understand, it's existence and ability to produce chips came way before it's mass production.
Dude. Do you even know what you linked to?
"/r/GlobalPowers is a realistic and diplomacy-focused spin on the nation-state text roleplaying genre. We offer a unique environment that aims to simulate a plausible future, complete with a weekly United Nations, economic forecasts, and a great group of players and mods who are dedicated to the community. Whatever your strengths and goals, we welcome you - so pick a nation from the available listing and hop in! For the best experience, we strongly recommend visiting us on old Reddit."
"/r/GlobalPowers is a realistic and diplomacy-focused spin on the nation-state text roleplaying genre. We offer a unique environment that aims to simulate a plausible future, complete with a weekly United Nations, economic forecasts, and a great group of players and mods who are dedicated to the community. Whatever your strengths and goals, we welcome you - so pick a nation from the available listing and hop in! For the best experience, we strongly recommend visiting us on old Reddit."
Here's another article on it
Information is scarce due to China hiding their progress. In fact, that's why I'm here. There are leakers like Havock who can give me better insight into what's happening. The whole they only found out China is making 7nm by cutting open a commercial chip highlighted just how much China is hiding.
But again. If they already commercially produced a 7nm chip, that tells us they're beyond 7nm.
You can find news articles and publications with the research proposal on using SSMB as an EUV light source in this thread. It isn't even a lab scale experiment at this point. Let alone anything that can be used to produce any chips whatsoever. You might as well claim that ITER is a viable commercial fusion power reactor. The technology is likely a decade away or more.
Based on @hvpc's earlier post, SMIC has a real 7nm process right now. It's unclear who they are producing the chips for, but they do have a production process going. And doesn't sound like it's just a N+1 process for ASIC chips. After all, it's been over a year since the original ASIC chip was in production. Remember, they also changed their company page to saying
It took them basically 3 years from when they first started producing early 14nm chips to now the 12nm process (basically improved 14nm process) with high yields and able to handle chips of different complexity. By the logic, it should be able to do the same with 7nm process by second half of 2024. This also matches with Huawei whisper's estimation that HW will be able to use domestically produced 7nm chips by 2025. Beyond that, it's really just about how much they can raise their production.
from 14nm before. So, they are signaling that they have moved beyond 14nm process by this point.
It took them basically 3 years from when they first started producing early 14nm chips to now the 12nm process (basically improved 14nm process) with high yields and able to handle chips of different complexity. By the logic, it should be able to do the same with 7nm process by second half of 2024. This also matches with Huawei whisper's estimation that HW will be able to use domestically produced 7nm chips by 2025. Beyond that, it's really just about how much they can raise their production.
A decade away based on Western speeds. At China speeds, it's half that.
Bro thanks for the great info BUT I have a question, the article you stated is the Beijing SSMB being used (still under construction) or the Shanghai SSRF( Shanghai Synchrotron Radiation Facility)?
Big difference between producing something in a lab and producing something with a prototype lithography machine they can keep improving until it's commercially viable.
The first means the prototype doesn't exist yet.
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