Chinese semiconductor industry

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staplez

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I think you must reread my post, where in my post did I write about a 3 nm chip ?
It is in your imagination, then you said I wrote that
Uh, no you didn't say that. I'm saying that's as far as China has gotten in a lab. In 2019, a university used a nuclear plant to power a EUV laser and they printed 3nm chips. But the yield was horrible and it wasn't economically feasible. I can't seem to find that article now, maybe someone here can.

So the problem isn't making chips. It's making them cheap enough to be commercialized. It's why only Apple is using the TSMC 3nm process. It's just barely commercially viable.

The whole point is, China can't brute force cheap commercially viable chips. They've already brute forced the making of 3nm chips. Thus, this is no longer a throw money at the problem issue.
 

antiterror13

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Uh, no you didn't say that. I'm saying that's as far as China has gotten in a lab. In 2019, a university used a nuclear plant to power a EUV laser and they printed 3nm chips. But the yield was horrible and it wasn't economically feasible. I can't seem to find that article now, maybe someone here can.

So the problem isn't making chips. It's making them cheap enough to be commercialized. It's why only Apple is using the TSMC 3nm process. It's just barely commercially viable.

The whole point is, China can't brute force cheap commercially viable chips. They've already brute forced the making of 3nm chips. Thus, this is no longer a throw money at the problem issue.

Great. I learned something about that.

Do you think Chinese military already used 7nm and below chips for their systems? ..... I know even not economical, for military doesn't really matter as the quantity will be very low anyway

What stopping Huawei to use it then?
 

nugroho

Junior Member
Uh, no you didn't say that. I'm saying that's as far as China has gotten in a lab. In 2019, a university used a nuclear plant to power a EUV laser and they printed 3nm chips. But the yield was horrible and it wasn't economically feasible. I can't seem to find that article now, maybe someone here can.
Yes, and I can't too, It is good if true.
But for an article like that, I prefer not to believe it, but it is up to you if you think it is right, It is a free forum.
Just think, why must use nuclear plant? A lot of power plants available in China.
If you said China has an EUV prototype, I agree,
Just read this forum from the beginning, and you will get a lot of articles about China semiconductors, but I think the truth about China semiconductors lies deep unprecedented
 

staplez

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not necessarily ... certain chips that not profitable are fine due to sanction. But you are right, overall need to be profitable, but not necessarily every individual items
Well in that case Huawei is making 5nm chips. Some prototypes have appeared in benchmark tests that showed performance that had to come from 5nm. But they haven't sold them anywhere or announced them. So what's going on? Again it's simple. China can make 5nm chips, but not in a commercially viable way.

*Edit. I should also add I'm pretty sure China is not using 5nm in their military. Probably not even 14nm and below. I hate how people are getting this mixed up. Military grade chips need to be durable, performance isn't the key factor. Which is why it's absurd for USA to talk about national security when talking about these chip bans. It's a commercial attack plain and simple.
 

staplez

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Well in that case Huawei is making 5nm chips. Some prototypes have appeared in benchmark tests that showed performance that had to come from 5nm. But they haven't sold them anywhere or announced them. So what's going on? Again it's simple. China can make 5nm chips, but not in a commercially viable way.

*Edit. I should also add I'm pretty sure China is not using 5nm in their military. Probably not even 14nm and below. I hate how people are getting this mixed up. Military grade chips need to be durable, performance isn't the key factor. Which is why it's absurd for USA to talk about national security when talking about these chip bans. It's a commercial attack plain and simple.
Oh I just realized something. Before people start thinking this means China is close, that's not necessarily true. Making the chips isn't actually the hardest part. The hardest part is making them cheap enough to be commercially used. If we only go with being able to make them at all, Russia is able to make I think 14nm using X-Rays. But no one buys any Russian chips anywhere ever. They're trying to "commercialize" their X-Ray process, but well according to experts that's impossible. It's why China isn't even bothering researching it. However, that "process" exists and it made chips. But so what? Not commercially viable may as well mean it doesn't exist.
 

latenlazy

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Well in that case Huawei is making 5nm chips. Some prototypes have appeared in benchmark tests that showed performance that had to come from 5nm. But they haven't sold them anywhere or announced them. So what's going on? Again it's simple. China can make 5nm chips, but not in a commercially viable way.

*Edit. I should also add I'm pretty sure China is not using 5nm in their military. Probably not even 14nm and below. I hate how people are getting this mixed up. Military grade chips need to be durable, performance isn't the key factor. Which is why it's absurd for USA to talk about national security when talking about these chip bans. It's a commercial attack plain and simple.
It makes a lot of sense to maintain the R&D capabilities for more advanced designs if your intent is to re-enter the market at some later point without losing a step.
 

tphuang

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Loongson's 3C5000 server CPU has now been adapted to China Unicom's Unicom Cloud. Its domestic virtualization cloud platform is now compatible with LoongArch ISA. It confirms that 3C5000 is sufficient for HPC needs of phone carrier.

3C5000 supports Docker and KVM virtualization route. It supports data center, cloud computing & high performance computing.
I missed this one
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Loongson's 3C5000 server CPU has also been adapted to China Telecom's cloud network. 天翼云 now support LoongArch.

Recent post here about Loongson working with 天翼云
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Given that there are options domestically, I don't think Inspur should be that screwed.

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Also looks like China's oil sector is preparing to use Loongson CPUs also. Not a surprise here, since some of Phytium's larger customers are also energy companies.
 

tokenanalyst

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The latest progress of soft X-ray interference lithography at Shanghai Light Source. (2020)​


2. Research Background

Soft X-ray interference lithography (XIL) technology is a new type of advanced micro- and nano-processing technology that uses the interference fringes of two or more coherent soft X-ray beams to expose photoresists, and can carry out dozens or even dozens of nanometer cycles. nanostructure processing. Compared with other methods such as lithography, XIL technology has the advantages of high resolution, no proximity effect, no pollution, and high output. It can more reliably obtain large-area, high-quality sub-50nm high-density periodic nanostructures. The soft X-ray interference lithography line station of Shanghai Light Source was opened to users in 2013. The construction of this line station aims to take advantage of the advantages of low emissivity, high brightness and high coherence of soft X-rays to establish a high-efficiency, low-cost, high-precision nano-processing technology platform at Shanghai Light Source. Internationally, the XIL-II line station of the Swiss light source and the BL-9 line station of the New SUBARU light source in Japan have carried out a lot of related research work based on this technology. Researcher Wu Yanqing gave a detailed introduction to the recent work done by Shanghai Light Source's XIL line station on the development of this technology.

3. Latest progress

The soft X-ray interference lithography line station of Shanghai Light Source has established a set of accurate vibration evaluation system based on laser interferometer. The quantitative evaluation of the vibration of the exposure system provides guidance for the subsequent vibration reduction methods, and finally the vibration of the exposure system of the experimental station is controlled below the RMS value of 2.5 nm, laying a good hardware foundation for the interference exposure experiment. On this basis, the line station has developed experimental methods such as high-order diffraction interference lithography, large-area stitching depth exposure, and parallel direct writing Taibao lithography. The exposure resolution, exposure depth, and exposure area of the line station have been improved, and the exposure of complex periodic graphics has also been realized.

The high-order diffraction interference lithography method is an exposure method using second-order and above-order diffracted beams for interference lithography, which can realize the reduction of the exposure pattern period by 1/4 of the original mask lithography period. As shown in Figure 1. The current pattern half period (HP) is about 25nm. This technique has been used for EUV photoresist inspection.

1679090859536.png
The EUV Parallel Direct-Writing Taibao Lithography Method

describes a parallel direct-write lithography method based on a nano-displacement platform to achieve the exposure of strict periodic patterns of complex cells. As shown in Figure 3. This technology can be used for metasurface research and application.

1679090931551.png

Interesting use of X-Ray lithography techniques.
 
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