Chinese semiconductor industry

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olalavn

olalavn

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hans_r said:
going to point out that the SMEE ArFi cannot be coming out in both 2021, 2022 and 2023 (all of which have been claimed by members on this forum). There's clearly rumors being posted here
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you only understand one thing what the U.S. is doing with China's semiconductor industry... if not 100% domestic parts, it won't be public... as for the foundry in Chengdu... that's not the point big... because it's not wholly owned by SMIC... like recently, shanghai officials announced the 14nm process...it's 100% domestic.
 
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hans_r

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olalavn said:
you only understand one thing what the U.S. is doing with China's semiconductor industry... if not 100% domestic parts, it won't be public... as for the foundry in Chengdu... that's not the point big... because it's not wholly owned by SMIC...
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fully owned or not, the articles posted suggested that there was a foundry owned by SMIC that verified the SMEE ArF immersion scanner in Chengdu despite, somehow a 20K strong firm not having (any) open positions in the city. That's pretty strong evidence of a rumor
olalavn said:
like recently, shanghai officials announced the 14nm process...it's 100% domestic.
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link?
 
A

ansy1968

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hans_r said:
going to point out that the SMEE ArFi cannot be coming out in both 2021, 2022 and 2023 (all of which have been claimed by members on this forum). There's clearly rumors being posted here
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"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" and we are not here to educate you bro, it's either you connect the dots or don't bother, it's your choice. ;)
 
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ansy1968

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hans_r said:
fully owned or not, the articles posted suggested that there was a foundry owned by SMIC that verified the SMEE ArF immersion scanner in Chengdu despite, somehow a 20K strong firm not having (any) open positions in the city. That's pretty strong evidence of a rumor

link?
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Here you go bro and take your pick and please an advise do some research and ask Google for help.
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Aug 26, 2021 — China is expected to achieve full-scale mass production of 14nm chips by localising the entire production line and supply chain as early as ...

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China steadily moving towards domestic mass production of 14nm chips, which will be achieved next year, according to representative from the Institute of ...

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Sep 3, 2021 — Developing Telecoms reports shifting trends in semiconductors will see 14nm microchips achieving full-scale production in China as early as ...

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Sep 16, 2022 — (SMIC) has started mass producing chips at its Fab SN1 facility near Shanghai, China, using its 14nm-class fabrication method. With the ...

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Domestic line engineers for 40nm and above processes are now extremely out of stock. There are very few line engineers with experience below 40nm.

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Jun 23, 2021 — China-made 14nm chips could be in mass production by the end of next year, and domestic chips have seen their best moment, the report said ...
 
FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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hans_r said:
If everything is all part of a secret plan with decoys, that might indeed be unfalsifiable but at the same time, is fairly noncredulous.
In any case, the "Chengdu fab" that everyone references seems to be vaporware - SMIC is hiring exactly 0 people in Chengdu which makes me seriously question the veracity of the rest of the posting
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Sorry, this happens if too much information gets out. You believe, you believe, you don't, that's OK.

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I mean classified info has been leaked on WarThunder before so people are naturally cautious. Better to not be believed by internet strangers than to leak important info.

BTW, I personally never made any claims that SMIC has a Chengdu fab, or a date for SMEE ArF-i or EUV delivery.
 
olalavn

olalavn

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FairAndUnbiased said:
Sorry, this happens if too much information gets out. You believe, you believe, you don't, that's OK.

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I mean classified info has been leaked on WarThunder before so people are naturally cautious. Better to not be believed by internet strangers than to leak important info.

BTW, I personally never made any claims that SMIC has a Chengdu fab, or a date for SMEE ArF-i or EUV delivery.
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yes, we shouldn't reveal too much about information online... except information that is already public online
 
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hvpc

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olalavn said:
yes, we shouldn't reveal too much about information online... except information that is already public online
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You underestimate the resourcefulness of those in the semiconductor industry and the US government's ability to obtain information. We are paid to know information before the media.

Do you really think the USG found out about PXW from the media?
 
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latenlazy

Brigadier
hvpc said:
Bro, you are misleading everyone by trivializing the complexity behind building a production worthy lithography system.

What you said may be true for an engineering or alpha tool. Conquering the major modules that everyone is familiar with from plethora of ASML marketing slide is hardly enough to get the system into high volume manufacturing.

The devil is in the details. Details, which you called "passive" components, that ASML does not reveal to the public. Having worked with ASML to bring several scanners from development to production, I can tell you some of the subtle nuisances, functionalities is what differentiate ASML from Nikon & Canon.

We are no where near releasing a HVM ready domestic immersion or EUV system.

Even the wafer production ecosystem required to support EUV lithography is still a problem for China. Even if Chinese fabs have access to EUV system, the domestic EUV reticle process flow is no where near ready. And from what I see, there has been very little activity on this front domestically. Besides EUV photoresist, EUV reticle is also a problem.
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Eh. I think you’re the one being misleading here. The “details” are precisely the sorts of engineering I work on (obviously for non semis stuff, but systems engineering principles apply across domains), and I think you’re grossly overstating their “mystique” to put it a way. Figuring out those details is a man-hours problem ultimately, and more importantly it’s not a show stopper. Besides, the goal isn’t to be better than ASML when they can’t sell you those tools. The goal is to have something usable for production. A domestic tool doesn’t need to beat ASML in every way to be sufficient for production purposes.
hvpc said:
: ) Sounds like you agree with me that it's not easy for ASML to replace US origin parts.

If I remember correctly, all ASML scanner's reticle handling, reticle stage modules, optical sensors, wafer stage positioning module, and even some optics are fabricated in their U.S. Connecticut factory. You could check out their website, I'm sure there's some introduction of their manufacturing sites around the world and what they each build.
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I neither agree nor disagree? I think replacing non critical parts isn’t just a matter of playing switcheroo, but I also don’t think there’s much standing behind the argument that because it hasn’t happened yet that must mean it’s technically challenging to do so. Tbh I think you tend to over-emphasize technical challenge as a barrier when oftentimes the question is more about whether certain engineering choices make business sense.
 
T

Topazchen

Junior Member
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hvpc said:
You underestimate the resourcefulness of those in the semiconductor industry and the US government's ability to obtain information. We are paid to know information before the media.

Do you really think the USG found out about PXW from the media?
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I don't doubt their intel gathering capabilities but again don't overestimate them.

Remember they only found out about SMIC's 7nm chip from the media and panicked hence the current rushed and not well thought out restrictions.
 
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