Chinese semiconductor industry

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localizer

localizer

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China had certain assets that it can leverage in the mean time.

1. It still have state of the art ARM designs for mobile devices.

2. SMIC can do 14nm which is where Intel is at. We don’t know the details of SMIC 14nm though.

3. China can now make competitive DRAM as posted previously.

4. Has access to AMD designs for 1st gen Zen CPUs which are 14nm.

5. The consumer market can help funnel server grade and compute grade equipment into China if needed.


We shall see if China can put what it has together
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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localizer said:
China had certain assets that it can leverage in the mean time.

1. It still have state of the art ARM designs for mobile devices.

2. SMIC can do 14nm which is where Intel is at. We don’t know the details of SMIC 14nm though.

3. China can now make competitive DRAM as posted previously.

4. Has access to AMD designs for 1st gen Zen CPUs which are 14nm.

5. The consumer market can help funnel server grade and compute grade equipment into China if needed.


We shall see if China can put what it has together
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I think integration has always been China's strong suit. It seems to be in alright shape until 7nm, but it's maddeningly frustrating that EUV is such a crucial technology yet we know so little about what progress China has made there. All we have is a press release about some lab experiments from 2017.

What I worry most about is the EUV machine becoming another WS-15 - no end in sight for the wait.
 
localizer

localizer

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ZeEa5KPul said:
I think integration has always been China's strong suit. It seems to be in alright shape until 7nm, but it's maddeningly frustrating that EUV is such a crucial technology yet we know so little about what progress China has made there. All we have is a press release about some lab experiments from 2017.

What I worry most about is the EUV machine becoming another WS-15 - no end in sight for the wait.
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That machine is only part of the problem.

China need to develop everything from ground up. Need to step up its espionage game.

I hear many companies in China are trying to cover all steps of the chip making progress. It’s a start but we must get there.

Mao said we must have the H bomb and we got it in record time.

We can do this with sheer will and a bit of luck hopefully.

They need to have quickly open up immigration to overseas Chinese diaspora scientists.



I got a talent scout email the other day, I will ask them how they will bring me back.
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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localizer said:
That machine is only part of the problem.
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It's a serious bottleneck. It's one of those buttons in the tech tree that's a prerequisite for a lot of others; it's critical to get it done and dusted as soon as possible.

There is the point to make that China never bothered developing this technology because it never needed to. The foreign supply was always available and given the costs of polishing domestic equivalents and general Chinese xenophilia, it's no surprise that core technologies are so weak. But I'm hopeful that given this new consensus among the Chinese government and business community that the US is a staunch enemy that will give no quarter, the work previously done in university labs and research institutes can be quickly commercialized.
 
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H

Hadoren

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Unfortunately, China is probably stuck at EUV (and beyond that, the microscopic mirrors needed to make the machines).

"We know so little about what progress China has made there" most likely because there has been no progress. I really wish it wasn't so, and that SMEE was making amazing leaps and bounds, but there's no indication this is true.

Wishfully thinking China's making great progress in EUV is equivalent to Trump's magical thinking about how corona will magically disappear in April. It's not happening.

That's the sad truth and that reality has to be faced.
 
localizer

localizer

Colonel
Registered Member
ZeEa5KPul said:
It's a serious bottleneck. It's one of those buttons in the tech tree that's a prerequisite for a lot of others; it's critical to get it done and dusted as soon as possible.

There is the point to make that China never bothered developing this technology because it never needed to. The foreign supply was always available and given the costs of polishing domestic equivalents and general Chinese xenophilia, it's no surprise that core technologies are so weak. But I'm hopeful that given this new consensus among the Chinese government and business community that the US is a staunch enemy that will give no quarter, the work previously done in university labs and research institutes can be quickly commercialized.
Click to expand...
Hadoren said:
Unfortunately, China is probably stuck at EUV (and beyond that, the microscopic mirrors needed to make the machines).

"We know so little about what progress China has made there" most likely because there has been no progress. I really wish it wasn't so, and that SMEE was making amazing leaps and bounds, but there's no indication this is true.

Wishfully thinking China's making great progress in EUV is equivalent to Trump's magical thinking about how corona will magically disappear in April. It's not happening.

That's the sad truth and that reality has to be faced.
Click to expand...


We will face reality head on. Chinese have only started to live well in the past decade.

We must push on and each do our part.


To be honest, this is giving me more motivation towards my engineering work. Hope it motivates other Chinese diaspora to rally and work towards a common and great cause.

Chinese people needed a group activity and this might just be it.
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
Hadoren said:
Unfortunately, China is probably stuck at EUV (and beyond that, the microscopic mirrors needed to make the machines).

"We know so little about what progress China has made there" most likely because there has been no progress. I really wish it wasn't so, and that SMEE was making amazing leaps and bounds, but there's no indication this is true.

Wishfully thinking China's making great progress in EUV is equivalent to Trump's magical thinking about how corona will magically disappear in April. It's not happening.

That's the sad truth and that reality has to be faced.
Click to expand...
I get enough of this defeatist tripe elsewhere, I don't need to deal with it here. If you're that absurdly pessimistic about China's prospects, no wonder you called for cutting off all medical supplies to the US. Just what indication do you have that China's research on EUV hasn't made progress? What's so magical about EUV that only the Dutch can do it? Is it because they wear those wooden shoes?

No, seriously, you need to sit and think of a good answer to this question. What is so special about this particular technology that thinking it can be advanced by time and money is equivalent to thinking a pandemic will automagically disappear?
 
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