Chinese semiconductor industry

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Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

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Hadoren said:
That's exactly why a medical supplies export ban to America is China's most effective tool of retaliation.

We want America to have a big problem, if it sanctions TSMC and Huawei. That's the point.

Also, the European Union, India, Indonesia, Malaysia, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand, and Vietnam are big manufacturers. Combined they probably are several times bigger than China.
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Lack of medical supplies in America is not the problem. Look at test kits, ventilators. Etc. Trump just side through that. All the deaths in the USA. The highest in the world. Approaching 100,000. Yet Trump's support remain strong, particularly his base!

Believe me, stopping medical supplies, and hurting the populace is not going to do it. Also, you were aware that Trump was stealing supplies from allies, the supplies that China supplied. Are you saying China should stop these supplies as well?
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
NO worry China will raise to the occasion just like countless time before, the H bomb, satellite, CNC machine, food etc. In fact I believe it is silver lining because without it the semi fab will keep buying those expensive imported machine . It just too late to bottle up the chinese technology progress.There are many semi machine fabricator but in the past they don't have any chance The Genie is out via xyz

Chinese IC equipment makers revving up to serve domestic demand
Staff reporter, Shanghai; Willis Ke, DIGITIMES
Friday 15 May 2020
0
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China's homegrown semiconductor equipment makers are gearing up to develop diverse frontend and backend IC process equipment in line with the government efforts to boost self-sufficiency and cut reliance on US suppliers, according to industry sources.

The most aggressive among them, Xinyuan Microelectronic Equipment (Kinsmei), which started trading on the Sci-Tech Innovation Board in December 2019, is now having its frontend coating and developing machines validated by Semiconductor Manufacturing North China (Beijing) - a subsidiary of SMIC - and by Yangtze Memory Technology, the sources said. In September 2019, the company just passed validation at HLMC, a Shanghai-based foundry, for similar machines.

Xinyuan has also landed orders for frontend coaters and developers from many semiconductor and optoelectronics firms in China, including SiEn (Qingdao) Semiconductor, GTA Semiconductor, Ningbo Semiconductor International, Xiamen Silan Microlectroncis and Kunming BOE Display Technology, the sources said.

Also, its backend-use coaters and developers and single-wafer wet strippers have been adopted by many Chinese packaging houses, including JCET, Tianshui Huatian Technology, Tongfu Microelectronics and China Wafer Level CSP, the sources said.

At the moment, only 5% of semiconductor coaters and developers needed by Chinese foundry and backend houses are supplied domestically - mostly by Xinyuan, with the remainder mainly sourced from Japan's TEL, now dominating 86% of the global supply.

For China's semiconductor equipment makers, foundry houses have provided a good stage for them, especially 8-inch wafer fabs requiring lower tech threshold than 12-inch ones. SEMI estimates that China's 8-inch fabs will have a combined monthly capacity of 1.3 million pieces by the end of 2020, up from the current 800,000 pieces.

GTA'S 8-inch foundry fab has seen 34.4% of equipment supplied by Chinese makers, including etching, thin film deposition and process control equipment, the sources said. The firm's cleaning equipment is now 69% supplied domestically, with Naura Technology alone having won a bid to supply 16 out of 29 cleaning machines to GTA, the sources said.

Hua Hong Semiconductor's 12-inch wafer fab adopts only 10% of locally-produced equipment, including thin film deposition, etching, cleaning, coating/developing/stripping, polishing and thermal treatment equipment, with suppliers including Advanced Micro-Fabrication Equipment and ACM Research (Shanghai), the sources added.
 
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ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

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There's always some panic posting after US sanctions announcements. Now that everybody's had a chance to calm down the discussion can get back on track. And there's a hard physical limit to this - a single silicon atom has a diameter of 0.2nm; people have been talking about all kinds of limits before but semi fabs just keep blowing past them. At the current pace of halving node sizes every two years, this paradigm will be exhausted in around a decade. It's just not possible to make a transistor smaller than a silicon atom.
 
Gatekeeper

Gatekeeper

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LawLeadsToPeace said:
If any of the Western nations want to use Taiwan as their final attempt to screw with China or do something like that, China can just sanction them just like they did to Australia and let them fall into total destruction. Their lifelines literally are in the hands of China and China can just yank them whenever they try something funny.
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I think it's New Zealand that was using the Taiwan card with its support on Taiwan's observatory status in the WHO.
 
V

Vichysoy

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ZeEa5KPul said:
There's always some panic posting after US sanctions announcements. Now that everybody's had a chance to calm down the discussion can get back on track. And there's a hard physical limit to this - a single silicon atom has a diameter of 0.2nm; people have been talking about all kinds of limits before but semi fabs just keep blowing past them. At the current pace of halving node sizes every two years, this paradigm will be exhausted in around a decade. It's just not possible to make a transistor smaller than a silicon atom.
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yes , I agree with u !
 
supercat

supercat

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10thman said:
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May 15, 2020
The Arizona fab size that TSMC plans to build suggests that it will only account for a small portion of TSMC global capacity.
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Taiwan will invest $40 billion in the next few years. They are also building at least one factory in Taiwan:
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BTW, not all chips are equal. According to the following graph, Intel's chips are considered to have similar performance with smaller TSMC chips:
1589682066618.png
 
T

TFA_936_662

Just Hatched
Registered Member
ZeEa5KPul said:
Wooo, fancy. Nah, not really, that's just that kind of pablum a liberal arts major "journalist" would write. I could write you a story like that about any technology that China has already mastered. You are right that it would take decades of research for China to master it... good thing it's been researching it since at least 2000. You think China just woke up to this game? Not at all, it saw all this happening from miles away. By the way, that edifying discussion is about the light source, something which the Changchun Institute of Optics announced a breakthrough in before things went silent. Do you think they went silent because all the researchers suddenly decided to destroy their brains by huffing glue before dynamiting their lab and bringing progress to a halt, or do you think it went silent because it moved to a phase where it's a sensitive national security matter and people generally don't blab about things like that?

I think people need to understand and appreciate what China is because sometimes people can think it's a country. They say that it took Germany umpteen years to do this and Japan a bazillion to do that. China is not a country, it is a world. Even with its relative backwardness and poverty there is simply no basis for comparing the scale of talent and money China can hurl at a problem to anyone else.

Suppose Huawei handset and laptop division goes belly up, do you think that's going to stop the company? Do you understand that the Chinese state's backing and its capacity to marshal resources are essentially limitless? Do you think American technology companies won't be destroyed by severe Chinese retaliation? Can America support its companies the way China can?

Edit: On a technical note, why did China decide to go the discharge-produced plasma (DPP) route rather than the laser-produced plasma (LPP) route that ASML took? From what I can see in the literature, the LPP route has clear power-efficiency advantages.
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You said "I think people need to understand and appreciate what China is because sometimes people can think it's a country. They say that it took Germany umpteen years to do this and Japan a bazillion to do that. China is not a country, it is a world. Even with its relative backwardness and poverty there is simply no basis for comparing the scale of talent and money China can hurl at a problem to anyone else."

One thing many people overlook is that while the US education system is bad, their ability to get talent from all around the world is unparalleled. Every year, they get more than 1 million immigrants from all round the world and this is with a terrible immigration system. The US is shooting itself in the foot with reducing legal immigration which is what Trump is doing but imagine if the Congress passes immigration reform legislation and then substantially increases legal immigration to match the current labour force (immigration levels are stuck since the 1990s), then China will have to compete with a big chunk of the rest of the world. Imagine if the US starts getting 2-3 million immigrants a year, the best and brightest of most countries, how will China compete?

China must hope that the US continues its xenophobic immigration policies under Trump because if the US fixes its immigration problems and increases it to levels seen in Canada, the STEM workforce in the US will be so rich and diverse and deep that it can compete with China's 1.4 billion.
 
T

TFA_936_662

Just Hatched
Registered Member
According to Biden's website he will try to do the following : "Increases the number of visas offered for permanent, work-based immigration based on macroeconomic conditions. Currently, the number of employment-based visas is capped at 140,000 each year, without the ability to be responsive to the state of the labor market or demands from domestic employers. As president, Biden will work with Congress to increase the number of visas awarded for permanent, employment-based immigration—and promote mechanisms to temporarily reduce the number of visas during times of high U.S. unemployment. He will also exempt from any cap recent graduates of PhD programs in STEM fields in the U.S. who are poised to make some of the most important contributions to the world economy. Biden believes that foreign graduates of a U.S. doctoral program should be given a green card with their degree and that losing these highly trained workers to foreign economies is a disservice to our own economic competitiveness. " If everyone who completes a PHD program in a STEM field in the US gets a green card, that will be something China will have to look at. Even if the US policy scares away all Chinese students, they still have India, Africa, huge chunks of humanity to recruit from. If this gets passed, the US will be resurgent. If Trump continues to cut legal immigration like Stephen Miller wants to, the US's downfall will only accelerate.
TFA_936_662 said:
You said "I think people need to understand and appreciate what China is because sometimes people can think it's a country. They say that it took Germany umpteen years to do this and Japan a bazillion to do that. China is not a country, it is a world. Even with its relative backwardness and poverty there is simply no basis for comparing the scale of talent and money China can hurl at a problem to anyone else."

One thing many people overlook is that while the US education system is bad, their ability to get talent from all around the world is unparalleled. Every year, they get more than 1 million immigrants from all round the world and this is with a terrible immigration system. The US is shooting itself in the foot with reducing legal immigration which is what Trump is doing but imagine if the Congress passes immigration reform legislation and then substantially increases legal immigration to match the current labour force (immigration levels are stuck since the 1990s), then China will have to compete with a big chunk of the rest of the world. Imagine if the US starts getting 2-3 million immigrants a year, the best and brightest of most countries, how will China compete?

China must hope that the US continues its xenophobic immigration policies under Trump because if the US fixes its immigration problems and increases it to levels seen in Canada, the STEM workforce in the US will be so rich and diverse and deep that it can compete with China's 1.4 billion.
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