Chinese semiconductor industry

FairAndUnbiased said:

There were some very shortsighted people saying how Russia is 'nothing' and can contribute 'nothing' in semiconductors. Russia is still one of the few countries in the world with an independent semiconductor fab, fabless designers, and most of all, has control of multiple critical inputs.

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What is russia´s semiconductor industry capable of doing? Also IMO, it should be considered that using russia´s donbass materials could open chinese semiconductor industry to further retaliation from the west. Chinese chips could even be banned themselves in the future, going beyond chipmaking tools, and i dont think that china wants that.



CNBC article about a part of china´s chip industry insulated from US sanctions.



For those that know, what will be the equipment that these companies use? SMEE or other companies?

Cross post from China Space Program by @by78, @tokenanalyst @WTAN and @hvpc , If CIOMP can do this then an EUVL optics can be achieved easily. I think of the three core tech needed for EUVL only the light source is inadequate.


Changchun Institute of Optics has completed the world's largest silicon carbide aspheric mirror. The diameter of the mirror is four meters, which will greatly improved the angular resolution and light gathering capability of Chinese telescopes.

weig2000 said:

In case people don't know, Marvell was founded by a Chinese lady with her husband. She was originally from Shanghai.

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Semiconductor is a strange business in that, year after year, it is getting dominated by ethnic Chinese/Korean/Japanese, globally. Lisa Su saved AMD and single-handedly has made AMD what it is today. Jensen Huang is the founder and CEO of Nvidia. Morris Chang was once VP of TI, who founded TSMC. Richard Chang was once VP of TI, who founded SMIC. Once upon a time, I was day-trading INTC, NVDA and AMD for a few years. I personally witnessed rise and fall of many semiconductor companies. In a larger context, ethnic Chinese has been dominating global hardware businesses.

I am wondering if those politicians ever asked themselves: "why?" Or from a different angle, have they ever asked themselves what they are going to do IF or WHEN China cracks 7nm on its own terms?

4Runner said:

Semiconductor is a strange business in that, year after year, it is getting dominated by ethnic Chinese/Korean/Japanese, globally. Lisa Su saved AMD and single-handedly has made AMD what it is today. Jensen Huang is the founder and CEO of Nvidia. Morris Chang was once VP of TI, who founded TSMC. Richard Chang was once VP of TI, who founded SMIC. Once upon a time, I was day-trading INTC, NVDA and AMD for a few years. I personally witnessed rise and fall of many semiconductor companies. In a larger context, ethnic Chinese has been dominating global hardware businesses.

I am wondering if those politicians ever asked themselves: "why?" Or from a different angle, have they ever asked themselves what they are going to do IF or WHEN China cracks 7nm on its own terms?

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The biggest reason is the importance Asian countries put on education. Many people don't realize it but the West grew increasingly anti-intellectual since the 1980s (also coincides with the start of neoliberalism). University enrollment was mostly stagnant and recently started to decrease in a lot of Western countries. Furthermore, people are increasingly staying away from technical subjects. Indonesia and Iran are graduating more STEM students than any European country. Let that sink in.

BoraTas said:

The biggest reason is the importance Asian countries put on education. Many people don't realize it but the West grew increasingly anti-intellectual since the 1980s (also coincides with the start of neoliberalism). University enrollment was mostly stagnant and recently started to decrease in a lot of Western countries. Furthermore, people are increasingly staying away from technical subjects. Indonesia and Iran are graduating more STEM students than any European country. Let that sink in.

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A significant other portion of STEM graduates in the US are Asian too.

Orthan said:

What is russia´s semiconductor industry capable of doing? Also IMO, it should be considered that using russia´s donbass materials could open chinese semiconductor industry to further retaliation from the west. Chinese chips could even be banned themselves in the future, going beyond chipmaking tools, and i dont think that china wants that.



CNBC article about a part of china´s chip industry insulated from US sanctions.

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For those that know, what will be the equipment that these companies use? SMEE or other companies?

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banning Chinese chips, how? by what mechanism can they ban Chinese chips, by what mechanism is such a ban more effective, and how does a ban of Chinese chips, the end product, do any additional harm beyond banning upstream tools? do they have some big domestic electronics manufacturing industries? no, they use the same PCBs as everyone else, made in China. Do they have the capability to force everyone to stop using Chinese chips? If they did, how come they don't just do it right now, given that banning upstream tools is a much bigger threat yet is still ineffective?

Russia built a 90 nm fab 10 years ago and shipped proven products 7 years ago - far better than UK which is stuck on 180 nm at their flagship chip fab, which has now been sold to a minor Chinese company.

The value of the UK’s largest wafer fabrication site is minimal compared to other facilities.

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, which is significantly larger than what other companies worldwide can produce. While not all electronics require the smallest technology node, 180nm is a technology that dates back to 1999, the UK’s largest wafer fabrication site is unable to produce processors, memory, or other logic critical components.

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Russian attacks have destroyed Ukraine's neon suppliers outside Mariupol, which it now controls. The only alternative for neon is Chinese. There's quite a few more raw materials that are Russia or nothing such as critical etch gas C4F6, palladium, titanium, etc.

Meanwhile, Russia provides a third of the palladium metal used in sensors and memory products produced by U.S. companies. Russia is also a “crucial” source of C4F6 (hexafluorocyclobutene), which several U.S. suppliers buy and purify for advanced node logic device etching and advanced lithography processes for chip production, Techcet wrote in advance of the invasion as Russia build up troops along the border of Ukraine in recent weeks.

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This region is a major supplier of several of the natural resources for manufacturing semiconductors. For example, Russia exports 37% of the world’s palladium supply. In response to the uncertainty following the invasion, global palladium prices are now

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, up over 80% in value this year.

Global supplies of neon gas — critical to the lasers that make chips — face serious shortages as well. The two Ukrainian companies that produce

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, Ingas and Cryoin, have shuttered operations in the wake of escalating attacks. China also produces neon gas, which is a byproduct of steel manufacturing. But, Chinese prices are rising exponentially, already having quadrupled from 400 yuan/cubic meter in October 2021 to more than 1,600 yuan/cubic meter in late February.

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reports that: “U.S. semiconductor makers import neon gas, the chemical compound hexafluorocyclobutene, and palladium, which are used to make chips, almost entirely from Russia and Ukraine, according Techcet, a research group that analyzes dependency on critical materials used in manufacturing.”

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Those companies include Mariupol-based Ingas, as well as Cryoin and Iceblick, which are based in Odesa.

The firms did not immediately reply to a CNBC request for comment, but Ingas and Cryoin have both ceased operations in recent weeks amid attacks from Russian forces, according to Reuters.

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siegecrossbow said:

A significant other portion of STEM graduates in the US are Asian too.

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My nephew is studying mechanical engineering in the UK. One-third of his class is Chinese. There are also a lot of people from other nationalities and second-gen immigrants. "Original British" make up around one-third of the whole class. According to him the class almost feels like a class from those language summer schools. The West has ZERO chance of maintaining its technological advantage if Western mentality doesn't change. Believe me about this. And it is not about ebil seeseepee. Western youth don't like working for anything at all.

Orthan said:

What is russia´s semiconductor industry capable of doing? Also IMO, it should be considered that using russia´s donbass materials could open chinese semiconductor industry to further retaliation from the west. Chinese chips could even be banned themselves in the future, going beyond chipmaking tools, and i dont think that china wants that.



CNBC article about a part of china´s chip industry insulated from US sanctions.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

For those that know, what will be the equipment that these companies use? SMEE or other companies?

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Naura, AMEC, sypiotech, pmish-tech, kingsemi, TEL, Hitachi, RSIC, ASML, leadmicro, Wanye, CETC, Yita semi, ACM shanghai, PNCS, Hwasting, Alphasemi, ASM, SMEE, DongFang JingYuan, ULVAC, NISSIN and a lot of other companies. Basically any Chinese and non US company who wants to fill the void left by U.S. companies

BoraTas said:

My nephew is studying mechanical engineering in the UK. One-third of his class is Chinese. There are also a lot of people from other nationalities and second-gen immigrants. "Original British" make up around one-third of the whole class. According to him the class almost feels like a class from those language summer schools. The West has ZERO chance of maintaining its technological advantage if Western mentality doesn't change. Believe me about this. And it is not about ebil seeseepee. Western youth don't like working for anything at all.

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and UK has the most rigorous Anglosphere education system, where they just care about A level exam results. A levels aren't as hard as gaokao, but are pretty rigorous in their own right. For example, A level foreign language Chinese is harder than HSK 6/6.

If compared to [the HSK](https://www.cultureyard.net/blog/what-is-hsk-important-information), A Level Chinese is harder than HSK 6. While HSK 6 is very language-centric an focuses primarily on the use of Chinese for communication, A Level Chinese involves not only language, but requires critical thinking, knowledge of current affairs, and an ability to express one’s views in a logical, organized way.

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US has no entrance exam, but instead replaces it by considering the very, very important parameters of... affirmative action (race), legacy (whether your parents are alumni), sports ability (even for academic subjects), etc. , even the piss easy (compared to gaokao and A levels) SAT, and

So if even the most rigorous Anglo education system has problems...

tokenanalyst said:

So this guy expended months unsuccessfully trying to convince Japan, Holland and other countries to join them, then they decided to go unilateral and rogue causing a lot of damage to companies all over the industry including to their own and their own allies companies, like South Korea that now their companies are begging to get an insignificant 1 year license.

Good luck, because non US companies are salivating for that market share and they are going to fight that, they have a very small window opportunity before Chinese companies take over the entirety of the Chinese market.

TEL has been accelerating their advertising in China about their tools as a one-stop solution for semiconductor manufacturing, just saying.
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Could TEL build a fab using only their own tools in the future?