Chinese semiconductor industry

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ansy1968

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Agent number 2 is doing a good job in culling the US tech company.;)

U.S. alleges Seagate broke export rules to sell Huawei hard drives-source​



Karen Freifeld
Wed, October 26, 2022 at 8:00 PM·2 min read


Oct 26 (Reuters) - Seagate Technology Holdings said in a filing on Wednesday it has been warned by the U.S. government that the company may have violated export control laws by providing hard disk drives to a customer on a trade blacklist.
The customer is China's Huawei, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters, which is on the U.S. Commerce Department's entity list and banned from buying U.S. exports and certain foreign-made items without government approval.
Seagate was warned in a "proposed charging letter" it received from the Commerce Department on Aug. 29, according to the filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

But the company's position, according to the filing, is that the hard disk drives are not subject to the U.S. export regulations, and that it did not engage in prohibited conduct as alleged by the Commerce Department.
The filing did not identify the customer on the entity list.
Seagate, a Dublin-based company that also operates in California, said it was cooperating with the Commerce Department and attempting to resolve the matter.
The products at issue were provided to the blacklisted company and its affiliates between August 2020 and September 2021, according to the disclosure.
The company paused its shipments to Huawei a year ago, the person said.
Seagate said the timing of any final outcome is unclear, as are the terms. It also could not estimate the range of loss or penalty, although it said a material impact on the business was possible.
The company could face civil penalties of up to $300,000 per violation or twice the value of the transaction, whichever is greater, for administrative charges.
The company hopes to make its case in an upcoming meeting with the Commerce Department, the source said. It sent an initial response to the letter in late September and filed more information this week. (Reporting by Karen Freifeld; Editing by Chris Sanders and Sam Holmes)
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Agent number 2 is doing a good job in culling the US tech company.;)

U.S. alleges Seagate broke export rules to sell Huawei hard drives-source​



Karen Freifeld
Wed, October 26, 2022 at 8:00 PM·2 min read


Oct 26 (Reuters) - Seagate Technology Holdings said in a filing on Wednesday it has been warned by the U.S. government that the company may have violated export control laws by providing hard disk drives to a customer on a trade blacklist.
The customer is China's Huawei, a source familiar with the matter told Reuters, which is on the U.S. Commerce Department's entity list and banned from buying U.S. exports and certain foreign-made items without government approval.
Seagate was warned in a "proposed charging letter" it received from the Commerce Department on Aug. 29, according to the filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission.

But the company's position, according to the filing, is that the hard disk drives are not subject to the U.S. export regulations, and that it did not engage in prohibited conduct as alleged by the Commerce Department.
The filing did not identify the customer on the entity list.
Seagate, a Dublin-based company that also operates in California, said it was cooperating with the Commerce Department and attempting to resolve the matter.
The products at issue were provided to the blacklisted company and its affiliates between August 2020 and September 2021, according to the disclosure.
The company paused its shipments to Huawei a year ago, the person said.
Seagate said the timing of any final outcome is unclear, as are the terms. It also could not estimate the range of loss or penalty, although it said a material impact on the business was possible.
The company could face civil penalties of up to $300,000 per violation or twice the value of the transaction, whichever is greater, for administrative charges.
The company hopes to make its case in an upcoming meeting with the Commerce Department, the source said. It sent an initial response to the letter in late September and filed more information this week. (Reporting by Karen Freifeld; Editing by Chris Sanders and Sam Holmes)

This dispute is based on how far removed the US technology can be from the production process. The US is basically demanding an entire separate ecosystem for Huawei and China in general including I would assume design and other software. At the most extreme they can force a company to choose between operating in the US or China. This pushes towards forcing China to be "independent" technologically.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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Registered Member
I thought it would be good to summarize the present state of the Chinese lithography industry at this point of YOOL 2022:

DUV:
  • The SSA800 has met expectations (or disappointed them, depends who you ask) and delivered to customers for 28nm production. It is roughly comparable to an ASML NXT:1980Di. China has achieved completely indigenous 28nm volume production.
  • The SSA800 is expected to be used in 14nm production through multipatterning next year.
  • A follow-on DUVL machine (name unknown) using a more powerful light source and improved workbench for single exposure production of 22nm and multipatterning of 7nm (perhaps 5nm?) is expected Soon™. Expected to be comparable to ASML NXT:2050i.
EUV:
  • There were some rumours of a 150W DPP EUVL tool supposed to be released around now. Obviously, no such thing has materialized, which means it's A) very secretive or B) as I suspect, DPP is not a viable path to commercial EUV.
  • Everything about LPP EUV is a black box (at least in comparison to DUV). No word on the status of the CO2 laser, the optics, etc. All we "know" is that a machine should be ready around 2025.
  • SSMB is a very interesting dark horse, but I don't think it's in the running for China's first generation EUVL. If it lives up to its promise, it would be a vast improvement over LPP EUVL and China would gain enormous advantages from getting to it first.
I'd welcome the inputs, thoughts, and critiques of knowledgeable members like @WTAN, @tokenanalyst, and @FairAndUnbiased.
I won't credit SMEE with 28 nm yet until we have absolutely indisputable evidence such as Fujian Jinhua producing chips since they've been cut off from everything else, or an announcement.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
This dispute is based on how far removed the US technology can be from the production process. The US is basically demanding an entire separate ecosystem for Huawei and China in general including I would assume design and other software. At the most extreme they can force a company to choose between operating in the US or China. This pushes towards forcing China to be "independent" technologically.
for once bro, I totally agree, I hope the American learn from the Japanese the proper way of committing Hara Kiri or Seppuku. ;)
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
So, I've been doing some e-sleuthing on the paper @tokenanalyst posted and I've found something interesting we rarely get in this game: evidence. Sometimes the citations are more interesting than the author's statement. Taking a look at citation 118 leads to a company R&D page:
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At first I was worried because the citation was dated 2022 and the page described a 7kW FAF (fast axial flow) CO2 laser. If 7kW was the best China could muster in 2022, ngl I would be in a state (commercial EUV requires around 30kW). However, I noticed the copyright notice at the bottom of the page was dated 2014. Hopeful, I wanted to check the earliest version of the page I could find on Web Archive, which was 2018:
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As you can see, the archived version and the live version are identical, indicating that a Chinese company had declared a 7kW CO2 laser (met all specifications, up to international levels, the usual) no later than 2018 and possibly as early as 2014. The earliest date (the copyright date) corroborates @WTAN's post here

Dude's mad legit. I'm going to do some more e-sleuthing and see what else I can dig up.
 

tokenanalyst

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I won't credit SMEE with 28 nm yet until we have absolutely indisputable evidence such as Fujian Jinhua producing chips since they've been cut off from everything else, or an announcement.
What if they made just a few, delivered to the sanctioned companies for verification, testing, production and they don't announced, that is my guess. So we will in the dark until they decided to fully commercialize it, they already have all their dry scanner dual stages but they haven't announced either, they haven't updated their new SSB520 in their webpage, in fact their webpage go dark after they got sanctioned.
.Is undisputed that there is a immersion lithography project in China, the companies are there, immersion patent activity peaked last year, the technology is there and the evidence is pretty convincing of the immersion lithography machine. The question are who are going to be the first users, how many their will produce and how long to reach a HMV will take.
Looks like ASML will not ditch the Chinese market without a fight, that put Chinese foundries in a difficult position of keepng using ASML or help SMEE to develop their systems. The middle path could be to enforce the use of SMEE i-line and KrF dual stage scanners and let fabs to select between SMEE or ASML ArF or ArFi scanners.
 
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tokenanalyst

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Is kind of interesting that all the noise in the China semi industry in the last week had come out only from YMTC, we haven't hear any noise from SMIC or CXMT or other Chinese semi manufacturing companies.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
qyiedEu.jpg

Satellite picture of YTMC fabs in the East of Wuhan. This shows the operational Fab 1 and the under construction Fab 2.
 
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