Chinese semiconductor industry

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supercat

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China’s top memory chip maker woos local graduates for design jobs as US tightens export controls​

  • YMTC presented a generous package to entice new employees, including 15 days of leave and a 40 per cent discount on home purchases in Wuhan
  • Graduates with majors in microelectronics, ICs, software engineering, electronic engineering, and computing were preferable applicants


New era has begun. will greatly benefit local talent . we will see the same trend in all critical high tech industries.
This is one of the main reasons the Biden regime is implementing the chips ban. The brightest and the best of China stay in China nowadays. The chips sanction is an unequivocal sign that the U.S. has completely lost the confidence that it can out-innovate and out-compete China in the future.
 

Chevalier

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I think these people are confusing companies like Lam pulling out its employees with Chinese-American dual citizens choosing their US citizenship over continuing to work in China. It would be interesting to know the breakdown of their workers by nationality. Presumably a large proportion of them will be PRC or ROC nationals who will now be very desirable employees to Chinese companies.

Also remember that the Korean and Taiwanese fabs are going to continue using American equipment. Lam, KLA and applied materials are going to need some engineers in China to support them. So they'll be employing many people in China but US citizens will probably be less welcome. Thank you America for incentivising the training of Chinese engineers over American ones
Anglo american propagandists often overstate the impact of their favoured government policies, remember how Trumps' Trade War was supposed to "cripple China"?
Now they expect signing a silly paper will similarly "cripple Chinese tech"?
Not to blow one's trumpet, but the Civilisation that created printing, the wheelbarrow, gunpowder and the compass not to mention 5G and pioneering fusion technology is not going to collapse because the Civilisation built by Pirates and religious zealots wishes it were so.

What the USG has done is ensure that current and future generations of Chinese will aspire towards complete tech independence and vengeance against these entities.

I actually would not put it past the USG to use Israeli style methods of assassinating and murdering Chinese scientists and engineers.
 

tphuang

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Why are we still posting this online lunatics takes?

Anyhow, to more important news
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On October 8th, they had the first lifting of steel beam of main factory at the new SMIC Shanghai Lingang fab.
According to this, there are 2 phases to this project. Remember, this project was signed at November of 2021 and started construction in January. They say the soonest it can start production is 2023 (probably near the end) and reach max production of 100k wpm by end of 2027. There looks to be a second phase also. The combined target production is 200k wpm. @ansy1968 this gives you an idea of how long it takes to reach max production at a 100k wpm plant (about 4 years). Keep in mind, they will also be adding capacity at SN2, Beijing, Shenzhen and Tianjin at the same time, so there are a lot of capacity being added.

This is from earlier this year when construction had just started
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it was said that the construction will take 36 months to complete (so complete by Jan 2025). So, even after construction finishes, it will still take some time to get machines installed and for production to be ramped up. it also said that over 100 billion RMB ($14 to 15 billion) will be invested here over the 2 phases.

Keep in mind that the $8.866 billion investment is just for phase 1. The Capex for Lingang plant is clearly higher than similar capacity Beijing/Tianjin plant. My guess is that the tools Capex is 25% higher. It points to either higher proportion of 28 nm production or possibly some 14 nm production down the line.

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该项目在高端芯片等方面关键核心技术上全力攻坚,加快突破关键核心技术。在事关发展全局的核心领域,瞄准未来科技和产业发展的制高点。项目聚焦汽车/工业电子、移动通讯/5G、物联网、云计算四大应用场景,重点聚焦电源管理,高压显示驱动和CIS图像传感器等领域。项目规划产能能有效缓解国内市场需求,为构建国内大循环做出贡献。项目落地临港新片区,一方面有利于区内产业链的纵向融合,以制造为核心,带动设计、设备、材料、封测形成产业链集聚,加强产业链上下游联动;另一方面是横向融合,与智能网联、新能源汽车、人工智能等新片区重点发展的产业紧密合作,加强相关领域的本土化协同生产能力
This portion is particularly interesting. It talks about producing auto/industrial electronics, mobile communicatoin/5g, IoT and cloud computing. It also talks about smart web, NEV an AI. I don't really see how it can contribute to AI or cloud computing unless this project will also be entering more advanced node. Maybe one of those things where Shanghai government needs to pump in more money.

I do wonder if TSMC fab ever gets closed down in China, those employees would be able to work at SMIC plant. I do think getting quality staffing is a huge unknown factor in fab expansion. It's often under appreciated part of building your semiconductor industry. The best way for SMIC to expand maybe for Chinese government to somehow force TSMC to downsize it's operation. Also, with SMIC raising production of 28 nm and Finfet wafers, I wonder if TSMC's China plant will become unprofitable over time. After all, its 16 nm production probably relied on customers like Phytium that have now switched over to SMIC.
 

siegecrossbow

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I think these people are confusing companies like Lam pulling out its employees with Chinese-American dual citizens choosing their US citizenship over continuing to work in China. It would be interesting to know the breakdown of their workers by nationality. Presumably a large proportion of them will be PRC or ROC nationals who will now be very desirable employees to Chinese companies.

Also remember that the Korean and Taiwanese fabs are going to continue using American equipment. Lam, KLA and applied materials are going to need some engineers in China to support them. So they'll be employing many people in China but US citizens will probably be less welcome. Thank you America for incentivising the training of Chinese engineers over American ones

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CMP

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Anglo american propagandists often overstate the impact of their favoured government policies, remember how Trumps' Trade War was supposed to "cripple China"?
Now they expect signing a silly paper will similarly "cripple Chinese tech"?
Not to blow one's trumpet, but the Civilisation that created printing, the wheelbarrow, gunpowder and the compass not to mention 5G and pioneering fusion technology is not going to collapse because the Civilisation built by Pirates and religious zealots wishes it were so.

What the USG has done is ensure that current and future generations of Chinese will aspire towards complete tech independence and vengeance against these entities.

I actually would not put it past the USG to use Israeli style methods of assassinating and murdering Chinese scientists and engineers.
I am actually quite surprised they haven't started doing it already. Or perhaps they have and managed to keep it under the radar?
 

Chevalier

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I am actually quite surprised they haven't started doing it already. Or perhaps they have and managed to keep it under the radar?
That's why there are conspiracy theories that missing flight MH370 was actually shot down by the US because it was carrying a team of key Chinese chip engineers and another one that goes that Meng Wenzhou was actually supposed to meet a top Chinese chip engineer who had created a revolutionary design before she was kidnapped and held hostage.
 

tphuang

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Again, why are we still doing Chinese grievance against some stupid dude's tweet? China will be fine. We don't need tweet other people's positive takes to know it's fine. There are plenty of evidences in this thread.

On other news.
Looks like Phytium will do certain presentation of their product to celebrate the 20th National Congress. I really don't care about the nationalistic nonsense. More important, I anticipate they will use this time to announce their new products as a way to tell the world that China is doing well in locally designed chips. I would expect other companies like Hygon and Zhaoxin to do the same.
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in terms of moving domestic companies/infrastructure to using Chinese chips. Report here about Phytium CPUs being used in over 40 power stations around China.
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There really is huge demand for SMIC right now. You can't build suitable CPUs unless its 14 nm process these days. And right now, only SMIC SN1 plant is capable of producing 14n nm chips at a high yield. SMIC is well served to use this opportunity to push forward on more Finfet capacity.

Just to talk about important of 14nm and N+1 and N+2 production. We already know that SMIC's N+1 is like 8 nm and many of the recent AI chips they have uses 7nm process. As such, N+1 is sufficient for most current generation CPU/GPU need. N+2 and N+2 improved would be sufficient for next few years. As it turns out, you can produce pretty good AI chips even with 14nm process. This was discussed a month ago.

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At the time, Moffett's S30 chips were able to achieve outstanding numbers using high sparsity algorithm. Not only that, it has much lower heat consumption than its competitors. I don't quite understand how it achieved these numbers, but it shows you don't need to pack 77 million transistors (like on BR100) to be high performing.

Right on queue, Moffett will now be working with Inspur to get its products out.
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siegecrossbow

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Again, why are we still doing Chinese grievance against some stupid dude's tweet? China will be fine. We don't need tweet other people's positive takes to know it's fine. There are plenty of evidences in this thread.

On other news.
Looks like Phytium will do certain presentation of their product to celebrate the 20th National Congress. I really don't care about the nationalistic nonsense. More important, I anticipate they will use this time to announce their new products as a way to tell the world that China is doing well in locally designed chips. I would expect other companies like Hygon and Zhaoxin to do the same.
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in terms of moving domestic companies/infrastructure to using Chinese chips. Report here about Phytium CPUs being used in over 40 power stations around China.
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There really is huge demand for SMIC right now. You can't build suitable CPUs unless its 14 nm process these days. And right now, only SMIC SN1 plant is capable of producing 14n nm chips at a high yield. SMIC is well served to use this opportunity to push forward on more Finfet capacity.

Just to talk about important of 14nm and N+1 and N+2 production. We already know that SMIC's N+1 is like 8 nm and many of the recent AI chips they have uses 7nm process. As such, N+1 is sufficient for most current generation CPU/GPU need. N+2 and N+2 improved would be sufficient for next few years. As it turns out, you can produce pretty good AI chips even with 14nm process. This was discussed a month ago.

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At the time, Moffett's S30 chips were able to achieve outstanding numbers using high sparsity algorithm. Not only that, it has much lower heat consumption than its competitors. I don't quite understand how it achieved these numbers, but it shows you don't need to pack 77 million transistors (like on BR100) to be high performing.

Right on queue, Moffett will now be working with Inspur to get its products out.
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I agree that the whole giving a gift thing is really corny but that’s just how the country has operated for the past few millennia. Traditional inertia are hard to overcome.
 
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