Chinese semiconductor industry

Status
Not open for further replies.

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Washington Raises Stakes in War on Chinese Technology

New U.S. sanctions are in some ways more restrictive than Cold-War era controls.​


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There are some ways in which the evolving export control regime toward China is even more expansive than what the West devised during the Cold War. The old Cold War’s controls were aimed solely at slowing Soviet and Chinese military capabilities, but the new actions have broader goals. A senior U.S. Commerce Department official cited concerns not just over China’s military modernization but also that China “is using these capabilities to monitor, track, and surveil their own citizens.” The new restrictions, the official said, “will protect U.S. national security and foreign-policy interests while also
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that U.S. technological leadership is about values as well as innovation.”

The Cold War experience showed that export controls are far from perfect, and they may do less than their advocates hope to slow China’s technological development. Such restrictions are
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, and countries can often find a way around them through smuggling, espionage, or by routing deliveries through third countries. The Soviet Union still developed advanced nuclear and other weaponry despite all the technology restrictions. But in another sense, Western export controls probably succeeded: The Soviet Union, right up to its demise, lagged behind the United States and its allies in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, opening up an ever large gap in both economic and military capabilities with its Western rivals.

With the more integrated supply chains of the 21st century, the United States has more capacity to harm Chinese efforts at the highest ends of technology development, which will weaken both its commercial competitiveness and its military capabilities. Blinken’s diplomatic niceties about not wanting a Cold War with China aside, U.S. actions now seem very much intended to block China’s rise as a major power.
 

gadgetcool5

Senior Member
Registered Member
Why does China need foreign talent?

Japan had crushed the US semiconductor firms with zero foreign talent and I believe China can do the same.
When Japan had succeeding briefly in the 1980s the average chip had 50,000 transistors. Now the average chip had 60 billion. The industry is infinitely more complicated now than then. Plus, the Japanese learned their stuff in the 1970s due to second-sourcing from US semiconductor firms. In the 1990s and 2000s they lost their edge, and then they fell behind.

The question is why can't China collaborate on semiconductors and other scientific projects with people from other countries, like Iran or Russia, that are willing? If someone is willing to help China achieve a breakthrough are you going to reject that because they aren't ethnically Han? If you ask me China should look for all the help it can get.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
When Japan had succeeding briefly in the 1980s the average chip had 50,000 transistors. Now the average chip had 60 billion. The industry is infinitely more complicated now than then. Plus, the Japanese learned their stuff in the 1970s due to second-sourcing from US semiconductor firms. In the 1990s and 2000s they lost their edge, and then they fell behind.
While chips got more complicated, the body of knowledge also grew and the tools to design them evolved as well. China has more STEM talent than the EU, US, Japan and Korea combined. China doesn't need foreign talent.
The question is why can't China collaborate on semiconductors and other scientific projects with people from other countries, like Iran or Russia, that are willing? If someone is willing to help China achieve a breakthrough are you going to reject that because they aren't ethnically Han? If you ask me China should look for all the help it can get.
While China doesn't need it, if friendly nations have something to offer, China is not one to refuse or lock them out. Do Russians or Iranians have the ability to contribute in lithography?
 

theorlonator

Junior Member
Registered Member
While chips got more complicated, the body of knowledge also grew and the tools to design them evolved as well. China has more STEM talent than the EU, US, Japan and Korea combined. China doesn't need foreign talent.

While China doesn't need it, if friendly nations have something to offer, China is not one to refuse or lock them out. Do Russians or Iranians have the ability to contribute in lithography?
I bet Germany and Japan do, so braindrain them if possible.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
The response to this latest round of US sanctions to Chinese IC companies vaguely reminds me of the doom posting in SDF after Trump started the trade war.

What happened with the trade war after 5 years, will also happen in the tech war after 5 years. Nothing more, nothing less
 

Quickie

Colonel
Yes, US strategy is to try to delay and hinder Chinese advancement and innovation -- China's strategy is to try and speed up their own advancement and innovation.

There are some rather simple assumptions that underlie both nation's strategies and those assumptions are even diametrically opposed to each other. (Basically in terms of China's ability to advance and innovate at speed, and ability to do so domestically and so on)

Time will tell which of those sets of assumptions prove true.


Among the assumptions that were put forward could possibly be that China wouldn't be able to catch up to the current lithography state-of-the-art level in another 3 decades.

No joke, that was the prognosis of certain so-called experts, who must have been pretty high on the copium stuff I must say, on the matter in some news media. No wonder the Biden admin is so gungho to go ahead with the expansion of the chip war then.

Wow... In 3 decades China will have landed men on the moon complete with moon bases.
 

tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
Washington Raises Stakes in War on Chinese Technology

New U.S. sanctions are in some ways more restrictive than Cold-War era controls.​


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There are some ways in which the evolving export control regime toward China is even more expansive than what the West devised during the Cold War. The old Cold War’s controls were aimed solely at slowing Soviet and Chinese military capabilities, but the new actions have broader goals. A senior U.S. Commerce Department official cited concerns not just over China’s military modernization but also that China “is using these capabilities to monitor, track, and surveil their own citizens.” The new restrictions, the official said, “will protect U.S. national security and foreign-policy interests while also
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
that U.S. technological leadership is about values as well as innovation.”

The Cold War experience showed that export controls are far from perfect, and they may do less than their advocates hope to slow China’s technological development. Such restrictions are
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, and countries can often find a way around them through smuggling, espionage, or by routing deliveries through third countries. The Soviet Union still developed advanced nuclear and other weaponry despite all the technology restrictions. But in another sense, Western export controls probably succeeded: The Soviet Union, right up to its demise, lagged behind the United States and its allies in
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, opening up an ever large gap in both economic and military capabilities with its Western rivals.

With the more integrated supply chains of the 21st century, the United States has more capacity to harm Chinese efforts at the highest ends of technology development, which will weaken both its commercial competitiveness and its military capabilities. Blinken’s diplomatic niceties about not wanting a Cold War with China aside, U.S. actions now seem very much intended to block China’s rise as a major power.
There is huge problem with that mentality, US hawks may think that they are in a new "cold war" but the Chinese high commands may have other mentality and different from the USSR the Chinese usually operate under market principles (yes even their state sector), as US cut supply from their side, the demand will stay the same on the China side, increasing the possibility that China own companies fulfil that demand, because the shear size of the Chinese market any company who gets big in China gets big globally and Chinese companies will not get content with just the local market, they will go globally, increasing their global market share and coupling themselves even more with the global supply chain the that US hawks desperately wants to decouple.
In fact I dare to say, that in this case US is the USSR, because they are using the national security excuse to harm their own economic interest pretty much how the USSR did back them.

But don't mind me. I am just passing by.
 

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
The response to this latest round of US sanctions to Chinese IC companies vaguely reminds me of the doom posting in SDF after Trump started the trade war.

What happened with the trade war after 5 years, will also happen in the tech war after 5 years. Nothing more, nothing less

I swear every time some sanctions or even rumor of sanctions happen half of SDF be like:

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top