Chinese semiconductor industry

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tokenanalyst

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Zhongwei (AMEC): The company has obvious advantages in the process of localization of semiconductor equipment​


According to micronet news, on August 22, an investor asked China Micro at SSE E Interactive about the main advantages and disadvantages of its etching machine and foreign competitors.

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China Micro Corporation responded that, as a leading domestic etching equipment company, the company has obvious advantages in the entire process of localization of semiconductor equipment. The company has maintained large-scale and high-intensity R&D investment for a long time, but the company still has a gap in the R&D layout and R&D scale of international semiconductor equipment giants. The company will continue to increase the level of investment in technology research and development, and further narrow the gap in research and development with overseas giants in the same industry.

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PiSigma

PiSigma

"the engineer"
ansy1968 said:
Yup they prefer selling it to the American for a song...lol
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There will not be any money that changes hands. TSMC will simply be nationalized, maybe with a new name. Any business that supports treasonous activity will be nationalized with patriots running them.
 
coolieno99

coolieno99

Junior Member
ansy1968 said:
You have a point bro, BUT IF China do achieved self sufficiency especially on DUVL and EUVL, I may see TSMC and other Taiwanese Tech company incorporated themselves in the Chinese economy. Right now they're hostage cause ASML is a monopoly and the American control a certain critical component, one piece can clog the whole process. So I'm certain the eventual reunification in Semiconductor sector can be achieved by 2026 IF the expected Chinese EUVL are being mass produced.

The American expected this as they are lurking on this forum and had read most of @Loveleenkr post...lol, joking aside the Chip Act is a product of that concern, they know that IF China had achieved FULL SPECTRUM IC independence, the Taiwanese and SK will migrate cause China aside from being the huge market, producing there will also be cheaper with local supply chain easily accessible, proximity and sanction proof.
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I totally agree with you. IMO, China will slowly absorb Taiwan without firing a shot, in the same manner China absorb Hong Kong. Many Taiwanese are working in mainland China. Many Taiwanese companies have their operations moved to mainland China. The most notable is Giant Bicycles(one of the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world). Taiwanese don't need passport to travel to China. Many Taiwanese retired in China. The hotheads like Tsai probably already bought homes in Canada,, U.S. or Australia to escape to. When the time is right, the U.S. will abandoned Taiwan in the same way , it abandoned Afghanistan.
 
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ansy1968

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coolieno99 said:
I totally agree with you. IMO, China will slowly absorb Taiwan without firing a shot, in the same manner China absorb Hong Kong. Many Taiwanese are working in mainland China. Many Taiwanese companies have their operations moved to mainland China. The most notable is Giant Bicycles(one of the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world). Taiwanese don't need passport to travel to China. Many Taiwanese retired in China.
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Bro I'm happy we agree, you're one of many members that I highly respected. The assimilation is the reason why China will not invade or DESTROY Taiwan, IF the redline have been cross, the possible action is a Colored Revolution initiated by China with the help of some fifth column elements operating inside. Beside the most important material in having a successful semiconductor industries are the people with expertise, I paraphrased one of MAO famous dictum "keep men lost land , land can be retaken, keep land lost men, you lost both"
coolieno99 said:
The hotheads like Tsai probably already bought homes in Canada,, U.S. or Australia to escape to.
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You know why I hate DUAL PASSPORT, people here that are Very Noisy possessed both, when trouble erupt due to their own making they are the first to leave. an example is Maria Ressa the so called Nobel Price winner...lol
coolieno99 said:
When the time is right, the U.S. will abandoned Taiwan in the same way , it abandoned Afghanistan.
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And Time is on China side, the reason for the reckless action by the US. BRO the Americans have 3 years to make trouble cause they know 2025 is the inflection point, so they the Collective West will provoke. The funny thing is being an ATHEIST Country GOD is on China side...lol The Collective West is having their hands full with their own stupidity, China didn't have to retaliate or initiate an action, they're doing it for themselves...lol

And one more thing the adage of Overwhelming Forces come to mind, that for me is the best strategy for China. It's expensive BUT compare to a War, this alternative is way way more cheaper.
 
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henrik

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Registered Member
coolieno99 said:
I totally agree with you. IMO, China will slowly absorb Taiwan without firing a shot, in the same manner China absorb Hong Kong. Many Taiwanese are working in mainland China. Many Taiwanese companies have their operations moved to mainland China. The most notable is Giant Bicycles(one of the largest bicycle manufacturer in the world). Taiwanese don't need passport to travel to China. Many Taiwanese retired in China. The hotheads like Tsai probably already bought homes in Canada,, U.S. or Australia to escape to. When the time is right, the U.S. will abandoned Taiwan in the same way , it abandoned Afghanistan.
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China didn't have to absorb Hong Kong over time. China just resumed sovereignty back in 1997. They just sent in the PLA.
 
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WTAN

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Registered Member
ansy1968 said:
bro from @Oldschool it mentioned 80 machines and more coming. And like we discussed before they had escape the gauntlet , the same with SMIC and they may mass produce 7nm N+2 without care. My question can they replace the American materials used in their production process? like local Chinese materials, Japanese or SK?

Oldschool​

Junior Member​

Registered Member
Jul 12, 2022
It's too late for US to pressure Dutch stop shipping DUV immersion to China. Up to now, China already received close 80 DUV immersion systems and more coming in. Dutch so far refused to comply with US's demand.
US can't stop China in the main battle ground of EV.

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This latest plan by the US Admin to stop shipments of DUVL to China and possibly to even stop providing maintanence to existing DUVL is really all a little too late.
There is a large market for spare parts for these DUVL machines in China as well as 2nd hand DUVL and parts.
The Chinese FABS like SMIC will be able to operate their DUVL for a long time without much problems.
Even Fujian Jinhua which was sanctioned is now ramping up their mass production using a mix of local and Western Equipment.
The reported start of production by the Localised 14nm Production Line is also highly significant.
It has to be noted that much of the 14nm Production Equipment can also be used to produce 7nm ICs. So it is just a matter of time before we have 7nm ICs produced using local equipment.
It is also likely that ASML will refuse to comply with US orders to stop providing DUVLs.
Chinese Semiconductor Equipment Manufacturers will benefit and achieve 100% market share in China if the US goes ahead and bans KLA, LAM etc from supplying the latest equipment.
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
WTAN said:
This latest plan by the US Admin to stop shipments of DUVL to China and possibly to even stop providing maintanence to existing DUVL is really all a little too late.
There is a large market for spare parts for these DUVL machines in China as well as 2nd hand DUVL and parts.
The Chinese FABS like SMIC will be able to operate their DUVL for a long time without much problems.
Even Fujian Jinhua which was sanctioned is now ramping up their mass production using a mix of local and Western Equipment.
The reported start of production by the Localised 14nm Production Line is also highly significant.
It has to be noted that much of the 14nm Production Equipment can also be used to produce 7nm ICs. So it is just a matter of time before we have 7nm ICs produced using local equipment.
It is also likely that ASML will refuse to comply with US orders to stop providing DUVLs.
Chinese Semiconductor Equipment Manufacturers will benefit and achieve 100% market share in China if the US goes ahead and bans KLA, LAM etc from supplying the latest equipment.
Click to expand...
He's back!
 
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ansy1968

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Registered Member
WTAN said:
This latest plan by the US Admin to stop shipments of DUVL to China and possibly to even stop providing maintanence to existing DUVL is really all a little too late.
There is a large market for spare parts for these DUVL machines in China as well as 2nd hand DUVL and parts.
The Chinese FABS like SMIC will be able to operate their DUVL for a long time without much problems.
Even Fujian Jinhua which was sanctioned is now ramping up their mass production using a mix of local and Western Equipment.
The reported start of production by the Localised 14nm Production Line is also highly significant.
It has to be noted that much of the 14nm Production Equipment can also be used to produce 7nm ICs. So it is just a matter of time before we have 7nm ICs produced using local equipment.
It is also likely that ASML will refuse to comply with US orders to stop providing DUVLs.
Chinese Semiconductor Equipment Manufacturers will benefit and achieve 100% market share in China if the US goes ahead and bans KLA, LAM etc from supplying the latest equipment.
Click to expand...
Sir welcome back, your presence is sorely missed, well we can say that SMEE has turn the page regarding the SSA800 DUVL and your prediction of a 22nm DUVL being work on had been proven right, so what next aside from EUVL? can you give us what coming next, is the 7nm domestic line be operational by next year?
 
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tokenanalyst

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ultra-precision grating positioning technology for lithography wafer table​


Summary
With high precision and high robustness, grating interferometers have become an important positioning device in advanced node lithography machines. Aiming at the positioning requirements of the lithography machine wafer table at 14 nm and below nodes, the development of homodyne and heterodyne grating interferometers with multi-degree-of-freedom nano/sub-nanometer measurement accuracy is reviewed, and the "four grating-four reading heads" is introduced. "The layout of the six-degree-of-freedom displacement measurement system for the lithography machine. In order to obtain higher accuracy and traceability, the environmental error, installation error and inherent error of the instrument in the grating interferometer are comprehensively analyzed, and the key issues for the realization of sub-nanometer measurement accuracy of the grating interferometer are proposed. Provides initial guidance for upgrading and system setup.
Abstract
Grating interferometers are becoming important positioning instruments in advanced node lithography machines owing to their high precision and robustness. To meet ultrahighly accurate positioning demands in the worktable of ≤14-nm node lithography machines, homodyne and heterodyne grating interferometry technologies and core systems with multidegree- of-freedom (multi-DOF) and nano/subnanometer metric accuracy were reviewed. Furthermore, a six-DOF positioning system in a current lithography machine enabled by an optimal configuration of “four gratings-four reading heads” was illustrated. Finally, errors in grating interferometers, including environmental error, installation error, and instrument inherent error were briefly discussed, and key challenges in error modeling, separation,and compensation were reviewed for achieving subnanometric accuracy and long-term accuracy stability. Hopefully, this study can provide preliminary guidelines for improving the accuracy and constructing various systems of grating​

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Jianguo

Jianguo

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FairAndUnbiased said:
based on my understanding, many fabs have their in house mask service.

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the big problem could be in the prebuilt IP cores that some EDA offers. for instance, they can add a USB functionality module to a chip, but is it all they're adding? you can design the USB functionality yourself. but then that costs huge amounts of time and money.
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The American state and commerce departments are absolutely forcing all foreign vassal semicon supply chains to coordinate with them. This is basically creating something akin to a 2-factor authentication system for the express purpose of undermining China's semicon progress. So, what might otherwise seem impossible to do, is now possible since every different company's inputs and outputs are indirectly accessible by the US government. For example, using your comment about some EDA software having the option of adding pre-built USB modules to chips. What IF?
  • non-China EDA were all surreptitiously including innocuous orphaned electrical terminals into every design?
  • mask makers from say Japan, would see the customer is from China and automatically ADD certain "modules" to those electrical terminals with the cooperation of Synopsis, Cadence, Mentor. What would otherwise be impossible, is now possible because the EDA companies with the keys to the kingdom are working directly with the non-China mask makers.

Now you could have some nefarious "module" added midstream into the masks even though the original IC designs from Chinese companies didn't include them. The modules might even have some connectivity capability. Modules could also be useless circuitry doing nothing but running in circles eating cycles to reduce performance so China's ICs are never competitive.

The bazillion ways trojans of some kind could be introduced isn't necessarily something obvious. The important thing is, it's possible. If it's possible, then it's probably likely because we are talking about the Americans here. They are bad actors with bad intentions.
 
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