Chinese semiconductor industry

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antiterror13

Brigadier
Yes, it's not an ASML choice not to sell in China.

Actually I read some time ago (unfortunately I don't find the link) that ASML and SMEE were mulling a kind of JV in China some years ago, where SMEE would have built the ASML's entry/mid level range machines. That would have been a big help for SMEE. At the end for some reason the deal did not materialize.

Finally, just to make it clear the huge work that has been done already (and that SMEE is still very far from even to begin), the below list shows the various generations of EUV machines:

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TWINSCAN NXE:3100 (first prototype, shipped in 2010!!!!)​

TWINSCAN NXE:3300 in 2013​

TWINSCAN NXE:3350 in 2015​

TWINSCAN NXE:3400 in 2016 (first production-ready machine) 6 years after prototype!!!​

TWINSCAN NXE:3400B​

TWINSCAN NXE:3400C​

TWINSCAN NXE:3600D (7th generation, now in production)​

TWINSCAN EXE:5200 (High NA machine, expected in 2024-2025)​


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If SMEE will be able to build the first EUV prototype even in 2025 (ultra very optimistic and mostly unrealistic expectation), it will be anyhow 15 years after ASML.

Don't be too sure that China is 15 years behind ASML ...... see what happens to other industries, Chinese first car compare to the American ones, perhaps 50 yrs later .. and see now? how about Chip design, how about satellite, rockets, 5th generation aircraft, aircraft carriers (lag with the us almost 100 yrs), etc, etc. How about GPS and Beidou ... see now?

Now Chinese have realised (thanks to Trump) that the US and puppets can't be trusted and you will see that Chinese would surprise everybody of EUV and electronic industry in general ... it needs time though
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
If SMEE will be able to build the first EUV prototype even in 2025 (ultra very optimistic and mostly unrealistic expectation), it will be anyhow 15 years after ASML.
That's not how it works. Its like saying a new phone manufacturer entering the business would have to start with iPhone 1 equivelant before going to iPhone 2, 3, 4 .... etc.

Definitely not. Yes, ASML will be more advanced but not on the basis of what you wrote
 

InfamousMeow

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I have found this article:
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There is a hint that Huawei might have partially resolved the issue of SOC manufacturing. Of course it has to be taken with a pinch of salt but if it is true it would be an amazing breakthrough!

When the hell will Huawei 5G come out? I am using a 5-year-old Huawei phone, the old pal has been amazingly sturdy and reliable. I just really yearn for the 5G experience.
 

ericlfh

New Member
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When the hell will Huawei 5G come out? I am using a 5-year-old Huawei phone, the old pal has been amazingly sturdy and reliable. I just really yearn for the 5G experience.
I am using Huawei 4G phone with Kirin 710A and Harmony OS in the world of 5G and IOS/Google. My life still goes on fine. Everything essential IOS/Google have, I have it in my phone. So if your patience running thin, nobody stops you from throwing away your Huawei. I for one will stick with it until it rise again.
 

Weaasel

Senior Member
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As long they have the monopoly on EUV tools they will not price themselves out the market, is like big pharma in the U.S. they can charge outrageous prices for their drugs because they have little competition.


If Tsinghua manage to deliver that SSMB project it could definitely change the IC manufacturing landscape, SSMB is designed so one ring could power multiple litho tools at the same time, instead of having a single light source per tool. If the technology succeed and becomes popular it could hurt Cymer and Gigaphoton, I guess ASML could still sell cheaper tools adapted to this kind of light sources.
If China successfully develops particle accelerators that can perform SSMB lithography commercially at a reasonable price, then China will no longer be at the mercy of the United States or any other country. The United States could repeatedly try to destroy such facilities. One cannot tell, really, given the obsession that the power elites of the United States have with China not matching, surpassing it or countries that it can easily persuade or actually does control, technologically, especially with regards to IC chips and semiconductors. I wouldn't put it past them to act in such an irrational manner, regardless of the consequences to humanity, and even to themselves.
 

InfamousMeow

Junior Member
Registered Member
nobody stops you from throwing away your Huawei.

Dude, where did you see me showing any intention of "throwing away my Huawei" for you to feel it necessary to let me know that "nobody stops me" from doing such a thing?

I am waiting on Huawei 5G, or else why would I keep my 5 year old Huawei? There is a world of amazing and cheap 5G smartphones in China.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
If China successfully develops particle accelerators that can perform SSMB lithography commercially at a reasonable price, then China will no longer be at the mercy of the United States or any other country. The United States could repeatedly try to destroy such facilities. One cannot tell, really, given the obsession that the power elites of the United States have with China not matching, surpassing it or countries that it can easily persuade or actually does control, technologically, especially with regards to IC chips and semiconductors. I wouldn't put it past them to act in such an irrational manner, regardless of the consequences to humanity, and even to themselves.
@Weaasel especially IF the SSMB perform better than ASML HIGH NA EUVL. And from an operation cost an ASML HIGH NA EUVL costing $400 millions you can build 2 SSMB facilities, each SSMB theoretically can power 90 EUVL so IF China EUVL do use SSMB then as @tokenanalyst had posted it's a game changer. ;)
 
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