Chinese semiconductor industry

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tokenanalyst

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I would be really surprised if US succeeds in moving / buying ASML out of Holland and actually out of Europe. Biggest suppliers of ASML are German companies (Zeiss for optic, Trumpf for laser) and hundreds of other very high-end Europe medium and small niche firms. ASML is a kind of integrator of the best of the best of Europe technology. We really can't allow US to take it.

Europeans will NEVER ALLOW THAT.
ASML is one of Europe proudest companies right now, to the extent that they would rather allow them to ship their EUV scanners to China against the wishes of the Americans than see ASML lose its monopoly to whatever EUV technology the Chinese develop in the future.​
 

tokenanalyst

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5 NM FIN SAQP PROCESS DEVELOPMENT AND KEY PROCESS
CHALLENGE DISCUSSION
Yushu Yang*, Bowen Wang1, Qiang Wu1, Yanli Li1, Yibo Wang2, Yuning Zhu2, Yongjian Luo2,
Weihao Lin1, Qingqing Wu1,Jianjun Zhu1, Shoumian Chen1, Ying Zhang2
1Shanghai IC R&D Center, Shanghai 201210, China
2Beijing NAURA Microelectronics Equipment Co., Ltd., Beijing 100176, C

When CMOS technologies entered nanometer scales, FinFET has become one of the most promising devices because of its superior electrical characteristics. The 5 nm FinFET logic process is the cutting-edge technology currently being developed by the world's leading foundries. With the shrinkage in size, the usage of various multiple patterning methods (e.g., Self-Aligned Double Patterning, SADP, or Self-Aligned Quadruple Patterning, SAQP, Litho-Etch-Litho-Etch, LELE, 2D cut) becomes more and more frequent. In this study, we will briefly introduce 5 nm logic key layer process approach with EUV photolithography technology and, as an example, present in detail the 5 nm Fin patterning process with a Fin pitch of 24 nm based on the SAQP patterning method. Key process challenges are also discussed such as Critical Dimension Uniformity (CDU) and pitch walking. Finally, we proposed the Module Technical Specification (MTS) of 5 nm Fin SAQP key process as a reference. Moreover, we co-work with NAURA to develop 5 nm Fin SAQP etch processes on domestic made etcher tool NAURA NMC612D with very good initial results.

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xypher

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Europeans will NEVER ALLOW THAT.
ASML is one of Europe proudest companies right now, to the extent that they would rather allow them to ship their EUV scanners to China against the wishes of the Americans than see ASML lose its monopoly to whatever EUV technology the Chinese develop in the future.​
Well, so far Europe has demonstrated that when the US says jump, they say "how high?". After rejecting the Russian oil & gas, Europe will become reliant on the American energy exports (primarily LNG but also some petroleum), plus the EUV source itself is produced in the US. That's besides the fact that Europe is reliant on the US military for defense and MIC tech. Does Europe really have any leverage against the US? I think nope.
 

ansy1968

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@tokenanalyst ,@FairAndUnbiased bro need your opinion on this 2 Chinese tech companies , Z-link & Fume, the two had been reported to supply Huawei with RF chips? and from my knowledge Hisilicon also had develop one?

And bro need your view on the propose OPEN RAN 5G system the US is proposing, can it competitively replace Huawei 5G tech?
 

FairAndUnbiased

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@tokenanalyst ,@FairAndUnbiased bro need your opinion on this 2 Chinese tech companies , Z-link & Fume, the two had been reported to supply Huawei with RF chips? and from my knowledge Hisilicon also had develop one?

And bro need your view on the propose OPEN RAN 5G system the US is proposing, can it competitively replace Huawei 5G tech?
I'm not an expert but from my understanding, OPEN RAN is basically splitting the 5G supply chain (base station, telecom backbone, network switches, data centers, etc) into different companies, while usually they're all supplied by one company.

I don't see how they're going to beat Huawei like that because nothing stops Huawei from selling ORAN compatible units to compete with them (since by definition the standards must be publishable to be an "open" network, otherwise it's an inefficient, duplicated proprietary network with revenue split between different companies, each with one or few customers), while still being able to offer discounts if they take the whole network.

But this also isn't necessarily a semiconductor issue alone. It has to do with RF engineering, legal, etc. So far I don't see anyone other than the classical suppliers like Huawei, ZTE, Ericsson, Nokia, etc. get significant orders despite years of calling for OPEN RAN.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
Well, so far Europe has demonstrated that when the US says jump, they say "how high?". After rejecting the Russian oil & gas, Europe will become reliant on the American energy exports (primarily LNG but also some petroleum), plus the EUV source itself is produced in the US. That's besides the fact that Europe is reliant on the US military for defense and MIC tech. Does Europe really have any leverage against the US? I think nope.
Western Europe is the Japan (America's lap dog) of the European continent...period.
 

FairAndUnbiased

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I would be really surprised if US succeeds in moving / buying ASML out of Holland and actually out of Europe. Biggest suppliers of ASML are German companies (Zeiss for optic, Trumpf for laser) and hundreds of other very high-end Europe medium and small niche firms. ASML is a kind of integrator of the best of the best of Europe technology. We really can't allow US to take it.

BTW I guess this is the concept that ASML CEO wanted to explain when he infamously said that even with blueprints in hand China would need many years to localize EUV.
I wonder if Japan would rather let its semiconductor industry be destroyed, or would they cooperate with China. If Japan doesn't start collaborating with China soon, their economic future looks grim as Chinese companies are catching up in the cost effective area, while Japan has never been higher than European companies in the top tier "high quality regardless of cost" sector. Japanese industry has always been more isolated and non-globalized than US and EU.

Simple demonstration: compare compression ratios of
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vs.
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vs. Chinese Kyky turbopumps (
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). Higher the compression ratio the better. Japanese and Chinese pumps are similar, and both are not as good as German pumps. But, the German pumps are hideously expensive ($15k for a 250 L/s level pump vs. ~$6k for the Japanese/Chinese ones). If they keep stagnating, then Japanese machinery will become totally uncompetitive.
 

tokenanalyst

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from my knowledge Hisilicon also had develop one?
I don't know the first two but yes, Hisilicon has been developing RF chips for Huawei.

HiSilicon producing 30%+ of Huawei’s radio frequency components​


Radio frequency chips are the most important component Huawei needs in which American companies are far ahead. 5G phones have to support dozens of frequency bands at a very high speed and great precision.
Only the very best chip designers can deliver what’s needed in a very small module. It requires special materials and state of the art processing.
“Huawei is producing 30% of their RF components,” Qorvo CEO Robert


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And bro need your view on the propose OPEN RAN 5G system the US is proposing, can it competitively replace Huawei 5G tech?
It will be difficult to create an "successful" standard and the same time try to exclude its biggest potential market but as @FairAndUnbiased explained the standard is suppose to be open so it will be not impossible for Huawei to develop their own compatible hardware and is even convenient for them because Huawei has a lot patents on 5G tech .​
 
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