Chinese semiconductor industry

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FairAndUnbiased

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Fabs typically only stock up on consumable parts but not spare parts. When I was engineer we had tried to have spare parts or tooling onsite, but ASML would not agree. And also price tag is to high to keep spare for all parts. YMTC, like anyone else, including even tsmc, if suppliers choose or are forced to support a fab, won't last longer than a few months. Fabs do not have capability to fix new advanced systems, like scanners. But fabs may be able to figure out how to do PM on less complicated systems like etcher, deposition, etc. but may still not be able to fix all tool problems.

But, most WFE suppliers figure out ways to continue support fabs under US restriction. I think I had mentioned before, some WFE company had build new parts warehouse outside of US where they "refurbish" parts, which could then be used for use at JHICC.
Typically you have 3rd party service companies do tool refurbishing, many can manufacture the same OEM parts (or they actually are a parts OEM). You'd be surprised how effective it is. Companies like UCT can even refurbish critical components like the main vacuum chamber, wafer heater or gas dispenser. A tool refurbished this way is a fraction of the cost of a new one straight from the manufacturer.

Lithography is a different story though, I'm not sure what the lifetime constraints are. Optics and stages shouldn't be wear parts or consumables. Light source has limited lifetime though.
 

european_guy

Junior Member
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you may be onto something. Didn't ASML and SMEE look into partnering up before? Maybe ASML could license some of the technology to SMEE to build DUV scanners for China.

ASML can keep supplying the world & SMEE will build their own variant for China. ASML makes money both ways from the scanners sold and the licensing fee. And since US can't touch SMEE any ways, SMEE ship tools to anyone in China and is happy. And Chinese fabs buys SMEE scanners without worrying about sanctions from Uncle Sam, and they are happy. Everybody happy. except MAGA folks. LOL

SMEE has to rely on local suppliers. If SMEE uses the same international suppliers of ASML, I'm afraid this cannot be an acceptable solution according to the China strategy of technological independence.

I'm not an expert of these machines, but I can safely assume that for SMEE using an ASML licensing where the corresponding technology has been developed around mainly European suppliers, and then localize it on Chinese sub-suppliers will be very hard.
 

Overbom

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ASML can keep supplying the world & SMEE will build their own variant for China. ASML makes money both ways from the scanners sold and the licensing fee.
No thanks. The US can indirectly control AMSL because it is relying in US suppliers/equipment.
In addition, the EU has also shown itself to be nothing more than a US lapdog.

China's semiconductors industry needs to be 100% independent of any Western(US/EU) supplier and equipment.
 

hvpc

Junior Member
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Typically you have 3rd party service companies do tool refurbishing, many can manufacture the same OEM parts (or they actually are a parts OEM). You'd be surprised how effective it is. Companies like UCT can even refurbish critical components like the main vacuum chamber, wafer heater or gas dispenser. A tool refurbished this way is a fraction of the cost of a new one straight from the manufacturer.

Lithography is a different story though, I'm not sure what the lifetime constraints are. Optics and stages shouldn't be wear parts or consumables. Light source has limited lifetime though.
third party service companies are usually only brought in after the tool is end-of-life. At that stage of the product life, the original WFE supplier will usually provide manuals or training for a smooth hand-off. But in the scenario we are talking about, no way the WFE supplier will train anyone to service systems in China while the actual product is still "active" in the product life cycle. It would become quite a dilemma for the fab to decide if they want to risk a third party company coming in and damaged a $80M or more system further. I don't think third party would willing to take a risk either.

Laser is actually paid for by use. So when it's near end of life, Cymer or Gigaphoton will come to replace it. Optics do degrade and would impact the efficiency of the system but can be in use for a long time.
 

ansy1968

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What say you TSMC? Intel expansion plan is Too Big to Fail and you're not part of it.

Earnings Outlook​


As Intel hits a year of building, Wall Street is worried the chip boom may be slipping away​

Published: April 26, 2022 at 12:36 p.m. ET
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Intel earnings preview: CEO Pat Gelsinger is using proceeds from semiconductor squeeze to build more capacity, and analysts are concerned about what that means when the squeeze ends​

im-515112

Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger holds up a semiconductor as he testifies during March 23 Senate committee.​

ALEX WONG/GETTY IMAGES


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Intel Corp. executives have been focusing on increasing capacity long-term as semiconductors have been in short supply, but Wall Street is worried about what happens when there is no longer a short supply.

Intel
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is scheduled to report first-quarter earnings on Thursday after the close of markets, following a quarter where the chip maker’s buildout plans included acquisitions. In mid-February, Intel announced a
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to buy Israel-based chip maker Tower Semiconductor Ltd. for its fab capacity, on top of plans to spend more than $20 billion to build a
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and $20 billion for
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. Intel also acquired Israel-based cloud-optimization software company
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for an undisclosed amount, with one report citing an estimate of
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.
All that comes a year after Chief Executive Pat Gelsinger
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for an aggressive build-out since taking the helm of Intel. At Intel’s investor meeting in earlier this year, Gelsinger laid out his vision with an outlook that was
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and
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. Intel also forecast that its battered margins should recover beginning around 2025 as the company continues to turn itself around.
Wall Street has never really been on board with Intel’s plans to spend a lot of money to build out capacity, and analysts are now concerned about the eventual end of the COVID-triggered chip shortage, which has rocketed chip makers to record profits. As
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, continuing outperformance for chips such as Intel’s central processing units, or CPUs, could also be at an end.
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Intel’s stock “now appears to have both tactical as well as structural concerns,” wrote Bernstein analyst Stacy Rasgon, who rates Intel’s stock as an “underperform” with a $40 price target.
“In the near term, ‘peak PC’ worries are now being incrementally demonstrated in consumer notebook builds, with CPU inventory correction now clearly apparent,” Rasgon said. “And structurally the company’s recent analyst day was not incredibly well taken with investors now having to face the reality of declining margins, nonexistent free cash flow, and forward revenue targets that appear challenging (if not outlandish) with the recent server roadmap pushout further muddying the share picture in their most important market.”

What to look for​

Earnings: Of the 36 analysts surveyed by FactSet, Intel on average is expected to post adjusted earnings of 78 cents a share, down from the 82 cents a share the company reported a year ago. Intel forecast 80 cents a share. Estimize, a software platform that uses crowdsourcing from hedge-fund executives, brokerages, buy-side analysts and others, calls for adjusted earnings of 85 cents a share.
Revenue: Wall Street expects revenue of $18.33 billion from Intel, according to 31 analysts polled by FactSet. That would be down from the $18.57 billion reported in the year-ago quarter, making for a seventh quarter of revenue declines from the year-ago quarter. Intel predicted revenue of $18.3 billion. Estimize expects revenue of $18.51 billion.
Analysts surveyed by FactSet expect revenue from client computing to come in at $9.42 billion; data center revenue of $6.78 billion; nonvolatile memory solutions revenue of $898.5 million; “Internet of Things,” or IoT, revenue of $1.01 billion; and Mobileye revenue of $415.8 million.

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Understand how today’s global business practices, market dynamics, economic policies and more impact you with real-time news and analysis from MarketWatch.

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Stock movement: Speaking of a possible seventh straight quarter of revenue declines, even if Intel beats expectations — as it generally does — shares have fallen following the company’s over the past seven quarterly earnings reports.
Over the March-ending quarter, Intel stock declined 3.8%, while the Dow Jones Industrial Average
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— which counts Intel as a component — fell 4.6%, the S&P 500 index
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dropped 5%, the tech-heavy Nasdaq Composite Index
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shed 9.1%, and the PHLX Semiconductor Index
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dropped 13.1%.

What analysts are saying​

Susquehanna Financial analyst Christopher Rolland, who has a neutral rating and a $52 price target, echoed those worries about inventory, which, he said, could pass into the second half of the year.
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Rolland, however, said that Intel could have a “saving grace” in that his checks indicate that the company gained modest market share in desktops and laptops in the first quarter. Intel’s biggest rival when it comes to a market-share battle is Advanced Micro Devices Inc.
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“In short, we expect a generally in-line quarter and guide, but note building intermediate-term risks as we move through 2022 given a weakening PC demand backdrop and potential margin headwinds,” Rolland said.
Citi Research analyst Christopher Danley, who has a neutral rating and a $58 price target, expects Intel to guide to a flat quarter-over-quarter $18.3 billion because of weaker notebook sales.
“Our neutral rating on Intel is driven by our expectation of cuts to consensus estimates driven by share loss to AMD and microprocessor inventory correction in 2H22 as PC end market demand reverts to the mean,” Danley said.
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Of the 40 analysts who cover Intel, nine have a buy rating on the stock, 22 have a hold rating, and nine have a sell rating, along with an average target price of $52.15, according to FactSet data

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As Intel hits a year of building, Wall Street is worried the chip boom may be slipping away. Published: April 26, 2022 at 12:36 p.m. ET.
 

tokenanalyst

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For the first time, the National Fund has invested nearly 400 million yuan in the company's praseodymium core, which is a subsidiary of the semiconductor component Wanye enterprise.​


On the evening of March 30, Wanye Enterprise issued an announcement that the National Integrated Circuit Industry Investment Fund Phase II Co., Ltd. (hereinafter referred to as the "Big Fund Phase II") intends to invest in Zhejiang Praseodymium Electronic Technology Co., Ltd., a subsidiary of Wanye Enterprise (hereinafter referred to as "Big Fund"). "Zhejiang Praseodymium Core" for short) increased its capital by 350 million yuan. After the completion of this capital increase, Wanye Enterprise is the largest shareholder of Zhejiang Praseodymium with a shareholding ratio of 29.63%, and the second phase of the large fund holds 17.28% of the equity of Zhejiang Praseodymium.

According to data, in December 2020, Wanye Enterprise and domestic and foreign investors acquired 100% equity of Compart Systems Pte. The transaction value of US$398 million has become the largest Chinese-funded cross-border M&A transaction in this field in recent years.
Compart is the world's leading supplier of components required for semiconductor equipment, and one of the very few companies in the world that can complete the precision machining of components in the field of flow control. The products mainly include gas delivery components, components, seals, gas Rod assembly, mass flow controller (MFC), etc., are the leaders of mid-to-high-end MFC components in the integrated circuit industry. Since the acquisition, the company has changed from a foreign-funded enterprise to a Chinese-funded holding company, and related products have entered domestic semiconductor equipment companies. The supply chain and revenue growth rate also continued to rise. According to statistics, Zhejiang Praseodymium Core's 2021 operating income is about 920 million yuan. At the same time, the company seized the external factors of the current boom in semiconductor equipment, and signed a contract in Haining to start the Compart manufacturing center project in June last year, with a total investment of about 3 billion yuan. At the same time, it will also accelerate the localization process of my country's semiconductor core components.
It is understood that Compart is a leading company in the field of global semiconductor components. It has two factories in Shenzhen, China and Kulin, Malaysia, with high-standard class 100 clean rooms, which can provide high value-added component manufacturing and integrated technical services. , In the field of semiconductor equipment flow control, it has strong comprehensive technical strength and rich product layout in research and development design, flow control, secondary process, assembly testing, etc. At the same time, the company has mastered a number of core technologies such as TriClean, Ultra-Seal, and iBlock. Its exclusive steel-making TriClean core technology has improved corrosion resistance by 2.5-11 times compared with ordinary high-purity stainless steel, ensuring the high quality of parts produced. Raw materials are self-sufficient. In addition, the two exclusive products, K1S and iBlock, are highly flexible and low-cost, and can provide integrated assembly services for K1S with gas bars and weldments. With its unique seal manufacturing process and technology, the company has served many world-renowned integrated circuit equipment customers over the years and has maintained a stable supply relationship. With the company's various measures to further increase production capacity, its own technical strength of hammer forging for many years and the product quality of stable supply to international customers, help domestic equipment manufacturers to improve the domestic substitution of core components in the field of flow control.
Previously, the National Fund's investment mainly covered industrial chain links such as chip design, manufacturing, packaging and testing, materials and equipment. This is the first time that the National Fund has invested heavily in a semiconductor component company, which means that it is optimistic about its future development prospects and attaches great importance to its future development prospects. By investing funds in areas where domestic substitution is weak, to create a more interconnected local semiconductor industry ecosystem .
As we all know, the semiconductor industry is an industry that builds technological innovation and digital economy, and semiconductor components are a key area that determines high-quality coordinated development. However, at present, there is a big gap between the technical capabilities, process levels, product accuracy and reliability of local parts companies, and the overall localization rate is only 10%-30%. Especially in the field of Compart-related flow control, the localization rate is almost zero. . Therefore, the first to break through the key core technology shortcomings of semiconductor components has become a key point to break through in the domestic component track.
At the same time, through the introduction of the capital increase of national-level strategic investors, it will help to further optimize the financial strength of Zhejiang Pr-Core, integrate the advantageous resources of all parties, accelerate the continuous and high-quality development of its business, and deepen the industrial synergy with domestic semiconductor equipment companies. Thereby accelerating the breakthrough and development in the field of domestic semiconductor components.
In recent years, Wanye has continued to support the growth and research and development of domestic equipment, and has strategically laid out the semiconductor equipment material track through independent research and development and epitaxial mergers and acquisitions. At present, Wanye Enterprise has superimposed on the original integrated circuit ion implanter equipment, such as etching machine, rapid heat treatment / de-fire, thin film deposition, single-chip cleaning machine, tank cleaning machine, exhaust gas treatment, mechanical arm and so on. The former equipment has formed a "1+N" product platform model, supplemented by the mature experience of its subsidiary, Zhejiang Compart, the leader in components and parts, in serving the world's top semiconductor equipment companies, further improving the integrated circuit equipment industry process chain and realizing the The synergy effect of downstream industries is committed to building one of the platforms with the most abundant types of core equipment in the future in China.

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tokenanalyst

Brigadier
Registered Member
third party service companies are usually only brought in after the tool is end-of-life. At that stage of the product life, the original WFE supplier will usually provide manuals or training for a smooth hand-off. But in the scenario we are talking about, no way the WFE supplier will train anyone to service systems in China while the actual product is still "active" in the product life cycle. It would become quite a dilemma for the fab to decide if they want to risk a third party company coming in and damaged a $80M or more system further. I don't think third party would willing to take a risk either.

Laser is actually paid for by use. So when it's near end of life, Cymer or Gigaphoton will come to replace it. Optics do degrade and would impact the efficiency of the system but can be in use for a long time.
ASML optics come from Germany, doesn't? I guess the service will depend on the parts that are export controlled in the U.S., like software, some metrology systems and lasers. Parts made in China (Metrology) and other countries are not subject to the same export controls.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
A requirement for them acquiring Cymer is to run the DUV laser division as separate entity. ASML can't favor Cymer over Gigaphoton. If Cymer can't sell to YMTC, I don't think ASML could make Cymer do any differently.

Anything is possible, of course. But like I said it's a lot of work to covert from Cymer to Gigaphoton already. If they need to make system compatible with RSLaser I'm sure it's even a much bigger effort to change all relevant parts and then have to qualify RSLaser as a supplier.

If YMTC is smart, maybe they had ordered only scanners with Gigaphoton.
I think China should just slap trade tariffs on semiconductors with US content in them. The more US content the higher the tariff. And imports of tools with Cymer lasers or equipment from Applied Materials should also be slapped tariffs on top.

Qualcomm should be used for monopoly practices. Fines should be charged on them. Same thing should happen to Micron.
 
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hvpc

Junior Member
Registered Member
I think China should just slap trade tariffs on semiconductors with US content in them. The more US content the higher the tariff. And imports of tools with Cymer lasers or equipment from Applied Materials should also be slapped tariffs on top.
And penalize our domestic fabs and strangle hold their expansion?

What you proposed can be done after domestic supply chain is fully capable and have enough supply to meet the massive fab expansion plans in China. We are still years away.
 

tokenanalyst

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Registered Member
And penalize our domestic fabs and strangle hold their expansion?

What you proposed can be done after domestic supply chain is fully capable and have enough supply to meet the massive fab expansion plans in China. We are still years away.
I agree but still Chinese tech companies need a risk rate system to catalog their supply chain from low risk to high risk, personally for now I would put everything made in the U.S. in the top of the list with the highest risk of being interrupted and in need of replacement as soon as possible. There is a high possibility that China hawks will take control of the export control narrative in the White House in 2024 if Trump wins the election.
COVID may be a temporary problem but braindead Americans Politicians willing to hurt their own companies in the hope of hurting China are a permanent one.

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