Chinese semiconductor industry

tphuang said:

I don't think we are at that point yet. I think develop good enough technology for most of chip demand and undercut in pricing is what they can realistically aim in the next couple of years. And it would be a pretty great achievement.

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I think it's a matter of emphasis. Yes, the 28nm/14nm "commodity" node is the immediate prospect, but we like looking toward the longer term stuff like the EUV systems with novel light sources and <5nm nodes.

tphuang said:

I don't have the same love for Huawei here. Doesn't matter who succeeds. Just need someone to succeed in all part of the supply chain. Given all the sanctions on Huawei, I think it's more likely other Chinese companies succeed here.

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What happened to Huawei was unjust. Yes, of course, "justice" doesn't matter in interstate competition - but revenge sure does. One day, China has to make America pay for what it did.

gelgoog said:

YMTC needs to watch out because Apple has had an history of killing suppliers. One sapphire crystal company for example went bankrupt. They will ask for cut down prices and huge production volume. A company without the fabrication facilities might feel tempted to expand their facilities to meet the contract then get it pulled out from under their feet if they delay even for the shortest time.
I think YMTC would be better off using their limited production to hook as many clients as possible. Instead of a monopsony client as fickle as Apple.

There is also a chance they might try to extract corporate secrets from YMTC which will then get leaked to someone else. YMTC can do a deal but need to come with both eyes open. Personally I think it is too early and they should wait until they expand fab capacity.

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Considering Apple earns more in China than anywhere else on the planet and YMTC is basically the CCP's DRAM darling, I think they would be very very stupid to try anything shady.

If Apple tries to 'kill' YMTC, CCP will definitely kill Apple in return - and they won't even have to try because Apple has put all its eggs in China's manufacturing and consumer base.

dengyeye said:

Considering Apple earns more in China than anywhere else on the planet and YMTC is basically the CCP's DRAM darling, I think they would be very very stupid to try anything shady.

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YMTC is NAND manufacture，not DRAM。Chinese DRAM manufacture is CXMT

ZeEa5KPul said:

I think it's a matter of emphasis. Yes, the 28nm/14nm "commodity" node is the immediate prospect, but we like looking toward the longer term stuff like the EUV systems with novel light sources and <5nm nodes.

What happened to Huawei was unjust. Yes, of course, "justice" doesn't matter in interstate competition - but revenge sure does. One day, China has to make America pay for what it did.

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I really hope and I would love to be wrong on YMTC, but to me, today, is an odd move: how much capacity has committed YMTC to Apple? Apple usually requires a lot of committed and certain capacity and timing, not uncommon for new suppliers to even build a dedicated exclusive new fab just to sign a contract with Apple. If instead this is just a small order to certify a supplier and little more, maybe it's a kind of favor of Apple to YMTC (maybe someone suggested Apple to do this favor), but if instead is a serious thing for an important share of the NAND procurement....I have some doubt.

I have read the comments, including on Huawei, and I understand that the whole thing of playing carefully with US when US is not careful at all, it can be irritating and hurts people's pride...but for personal experience I know in business pride is the worst advisor, especially when you are not on the stronger side. But also in the stronger side is not good because makes you overconfident that is very bad in business.

What's the condition of YMTC currently anyway?

Just saw a report that YMTC scrapped a 30 billion expansion plan due to financial trouble at tsinghua

Is this confirmed?

Edit: on closer reading, seems like it's not YMTC itself but a YMTC 2.0 company that has been scrapped by tsinghua.

gelgoog said:

YMTC needs to watch out because Apple has had an history of killing suppliers. One sapphire crystal company for example went bankrupt. They will ask for cut down prices and huge production volume. A company without the fabrication facilities might feel tempted to expand their facilities to meet the contract then get it pulled out from under their feet if they delay even for the shortest time.
I think YMTC would be better off using their limited production to hook as many clients as possible. Instead of a monopsony client as fickle as Apple.

There is also a chance they might try to extract corporate secrets from YMTC which will then get leaked to someone else. YMTC can do a deal but need to come with both eyes open. Personally I think it is too early and they should wait until they expand fab capacity.

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I wouldn't worry too much about Apple killing YMTC business. YMTC produces commodity products (NAND), not something specially tailored to Apple. There are huge domestic market for NAND in China. The bottleneck is for Chinese suppliers to come up with relatively advanced NAND at competitive price. Apple choosing YMTC is just a big endorsement on YMTC's products and capability.

In 2016, progress continued on the project to jointly develop and produce an advanced heavy-lift helicopter for China, based on Russia’s Mi-26 design. After a framework agreement in 2015 to further evaluate the project, in June 2016, Jane’s reported that Russian Helicopters and China’s Avicopter signed an agreement to proceed with development and production,

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which provides for production in China of 200-300 helicopters over a five-year period.

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Russia will supply the engines and certain other components, while China will be responsible for the overall helicopter design, development, and testing programs.

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The helicopter will be able to carry loads of up to 15 tons, while operating “round-the-clock in hot climates, mountainous terrain and all weather conditions, and will be able to fly a highly varied range of missions from transportation to medevac, firefighting and much more.”

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Additional arms sales transactions may soon be forthcoming. According to Vladimir Drozhzhov, deputy director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation (FSMTC), China is already committed to procuring over USD 8 billion in armaments and military hardware over the next few years, indicating that the two may have already agreed upon transactions that have yet to be announced.

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However, similar announcements made in the past have not always panned out.

Reportedly, Russia and China have also been discussing a potential barter transaction involving the exchange of Russian RD-180 engines for Chinese electronic components.

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China has been seeking Russian RD-180 rocket engines for use in developing a heavy-lift launch vehicle, although its technology could also be used to develop heavyweight, intercontinental ballistic missiles capable of carrying MIRV’d warheads.

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Russia remains highly dependent on foreign electronic components for its space programs. However, problems have arisen during the negotiations. Early on, Moscow apparently turned down Beijing’s request for a license to the underlying rocket technologies. In April 2016, the proposed transaction was reportedly delayed, due to concerns in Moscow about transferring advanced rocket technology to a country (China) that is still not a party to the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR).

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In order to protect its rocket technology, Moscow insisted that China sign a new intellectual property agreement, which likely addressed the MTCR issues as well.

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Yet, in November 2016, the head of Roscosmos indicated that the transaction is still in play.

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During the year, Russia also continued to pursue other means for obtaining Chinese electronics for its military and space programs. Russian firms already import a certain amount of Chinese electronic components.

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Back in 2014, Moscow planned to purchase several billion dollars’ worth of additional electronic components from Beijing.

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Such plans had to be scaled back, however, partly because Chinese components were unable to meet Russian test requirements, and partly because China was prohibited from re-exporting certain components to Russia due to license restrictions imposed by the West.

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Yet the two countries have still managed to achieve progress in this area. According to the head of Reshevnets, a Russian space enterprise, a number of Russian companies have recently begun to purchase electronic components from China to replace those no longer available from the West.

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Others, like Reshevnets itself, are actively discussing the purchase of additional electronic components with Chinese manufacturers.

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China also continued to supply other kinds of military-related equipment. In March 2016, Henan Diesel Engine Corporation was awarded a contract to supply eight marine diesel engines for use in Russia’s Buyan-M missile corvette. These will replace the original German engines used in the Buyan before Berlin suspended deliveries.

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China is also now supplying marine engines for Russia’s Grachonok-class (Project 21980) patrol boats to replace the original German engines.

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Joint research and development projects—a small but important component of defense cooperation—between Chinese and Russian enterprises also continued in 2016. Russian defense technology giant Rostec continued projects with Chinese defense firms NORINCO and CSGC to jointly develop and produce a variety of civilian and military products.

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In November 2016, Russian satellite firm GLONASS signed a memorandum of understanding with NORINCO for development of a new chipset for its navigation satellites.

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In a separate transaction, Russia and China agreed to create a joint venture for the production of precision metalworking machine tools for the Russian machine-building industry and defense-industrial base.

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Also, in November 2016, Roselektronica, a Rostec subsidiary, and China Electronics Technology Corporation (CETC), a major Chinese defense electronics firm, signed a memorandum of understanding to consider options to jointly manufacture new semiconductors.

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Russia and China have also been deepening their cooperation in the cyber domain. In June 2016, Putin and Xi issued a joint statement, committing to enhance scientific and technological cooperation in the information network space, carry out joint research and development on information and communication technologies, and increase information exchanges and personnel.

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Earlier, in April they held a joint information and communications technology development and security forum in Moscow.

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The two are cooperating at both the corporate and governmental levels to enhance information and internet security.

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Russia is now relying heavily on Chinese technology and assistance to achieve greater security and control over the Internet.

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Extreme ultraviolet collecting mirror with energy recovery function and preparation method thereof​

Abstract​

Changchun Institute of Optics Fine Mechanics and Physics of CAS​

CN113219794A-2021​

​

The application provides an extreme ultraviolet collects mirror with energy recuperation function includes: when the infrared reflecting layer points to a main focus point, an infrared light normal incidence reflecting surface from the main focus point is reflected back to the main focus point, and the target is bombarded again, so that the energy is recycled, and the energy utilization rate is improved; in addition, the extreme ultraviolet collecting mirror provided by the invention can reduce infrared light entering the system from the IF point, further realize spectrum purification of the extreme ultraviolet light source, and has small energy loss in an extreme ultraviolet band. In addition, the preparation method of the extreme ultraviolet collecting mirror with the energy recovery function is simple in preparation process and easy for industrial production.

Anybody know why SMIC 14nm production is still low despite supposedly getting good yields? Is it just not as profitable as legacy nodes? Or are they waiting for for new built factories for that?

sndef888 said:

Anybody know why SMIC 14nm production is still low despite supposedly getting good yields? Is it just not as profitable as legacy nodes? Or are they waiting for for new built factories for that?

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US sanctions forcing many American and European clients not wanted to use SMIC 14nm. Huawei the biggest client has been sanctioned so can't order from SMIC.