Chinese semiconductor industry

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FairAndUnbiased

FairAndUnbiased

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tphuang said:
That's why they should try hard to not get sanctioned in the next couple of years. As long as Russia is the news, it's a reprieve for China. The moment they have most of what they need, it won't be a big deal if sanctions go full board.

Also, we are so far from 2024 that I wouldn't be too concerned about who is the next president yet.
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Russian situation is going to be a godsend for the Chinese semiconductor:

1. They have their own semiconductor industry that neither too sophisticated (where China cannot help) nor too backwards (with no potential to grow)

2. They are sanctioned from every other equipment and chemical suppliers

3. They will accept more help and more experimental equipment especially if it's offered at a discount - basically, offering user experience data for some money back. Note that many companies will never reveal their actual process data back to the manufacturer.

4. They divert foreign funding to software and fossil fuel energy rather than towards challenging China in hardware.

5. They make people forget about semiconductor as 99% of CNN/Fox News watchers who see a 2 minute blurb about TSMC are now semiconductor PhDs will now see a 2 minute blurb about Ukraine and think they're generals.
 
Blitzo

Blitzo

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MortyandRick said:
Hey look. Why attack him. He has his opinions. Not everyone agrees with him but I for one appreciate additional expertise.
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In this case, it was a response to hvpc essentially calling someone else stupid and calling himself well informed, which was the issue.

"You're a romantic, but that's cute and okay, you are welcome to your delusions, but I'm a realist and my opinions are correct, sorry but that's how it is" -- that is essentially what his post in #12023 is.

It was not civil nor particularly polite.


The rest of his opinions he is entitled to, but that sort of waxing poetic is a waste of everyone's time.
 
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tokenanalyst

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Silicon carbide (SiC) patents help China achieve a complete domestic supply chain​


China is already the world's largest electric vehicle market, making it a top target for major SiC device companies. International SiC players account for more than 80% of the global market, but due to the U.S.-China trade war, Chinese companies are catching up in the latest and most strategic technologies, including SiC and GaN, to eventually achieve self-sufficiency .

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tokenanalyst

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The U.S. needs to show that he was involved in the theft or use of Micron’s trade secrets, she said. Statements from Chen “have to provide that guilty state of mind, if you will, to Jinhua — to the extent that Jinhua can be held responsible for it,” the judge added. “You want to say Mr. Chen is Jinhua.”
Chesney is set to hear evidence into April without a jury and decide the outcome of the trial herself.
At the trial, the U.S. has the cooperation of UMC, which in 2020 pleaded guilty to trade-secret theft in the same case and paid a $60 million fine.
In court filings, Jinhua has pointed to UMC’s cooperation with the U.S. and noted that the company pleaded guilty to the “narrow charge” of possessing a single alleged Micron trade secret. As part of the plea deal, the U.S. dropped the economic espionage and conspiracy charges against UMC.
“Despite UMC’s full cooperation and the government’s free access to UMC’s documents since it pled guilty more than a year ago, the United States has not identified a single document, email or witness statement among the over 6 million documents produced to date reflecting an agreement between UMC and Jinhua to steal or improperly obtain Micron confidential information,” Jinhua said in the filing.

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@hvpc you say that they are producing but in limited capacity, you know if they switched to Chinese and Japanese equipment or just using the left over equipment? Because i read after the incident Tokyo Electron was knocking from door to door in China telling everyone how unreliable U.S. equipment was, LOL.
 
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gelgoog

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The whole "Micron IP" "US Technology" angle was always kind of ridiculous to begin with. Micron bought some Taiwanese memory vendors and laid off a bunch of staff. Some of those people found work at UMC doing research for Jinhua. So even if they brought some IP with them this is Taiwanese IP Micron bought for pennies.
 
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hvpc

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gelgoog said:
The whole "Micron IP" "US Technology" angle was always kind of ridiculous to begin with. Micron bought some Taiwanese memory vendors and laid off a bunch of staff. Some of those people found work at UMC doing research for Jinhua. So even if they brought some IP with them this is Taiwanese IP Micron bought for pennies.
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No. They did steal Micron IP and tried to file patent with it. They had proof the engineers downloaded Micron IP. Taiwan police were also able to find same documents on those engineers’ phone when they raided UMC’s office.

JHICC’s argument now is that these are the actions of individual engineers and that there’s no proof those actions were under the direction of UMC abs JHICC.

There are so many different versions of the story. But I’m providing the basic general agreed version.

By the way, Micron bought Rexchip and Inotera but they all build chips with Micron IP. even if you argue Recchip used to build chip with Elpida IP, well, Micron also bought Elpida so they also own their IP, too.
 
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hvpc

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tokenanalyst said:
The U.S. needs to show that he was involved in the theft or use of Micron’s trade secrets, she said. Statements from Chen “have to provide that guilty state of mind, if you will, to Jinhua — to the extent that Jinhua can be held responsible for it,” the judge added. “You want to say Mr. Chen is Jinhua.”
Chesney is set to hear evidence into April without a jury and decide the outcome of the trial herself.
At the trial, the U.S. has the cooperation of UMC, which in 2020 pleaded guilty to trade-secret theft in the same case and paid a $60 million fine.
In court filings, Jinhua has pointed to UMC’s cooperation with the U.S. and noted that the company pleaded guilty to the “narrow charge” of possessing a single alleged Micron trade secret. As part of the plea deal, the U.S. dropped the economic espionage and conspiracy charges against UMC.
“Despite UMC’s full cooperation and the government’s free access to UMC’s documents since it pled guilty more than a year ago, the United States has not identified a single document, email or witness statement among the over 6 million documents produced to date reflecting an agreement between UMC and Jinhua to steal or improperly obtain Micron confidential information,” Jinhua said in the filing.

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@hvpc you say that they are producing but in limited capacity, you know if they switched to Chinese and Japanese equipment or just using the left over equipment? Because i read after the incident Tokyo Electron was knocking from door to door in China telling everyone how unreliable U.S. equipment was, LOL.
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They are using existing equipments they bought
 
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tokenanalyst

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hvpc said:
No. They did steal Micron IP and tried to file patent with it. They had proof the engineers downloaded Micron IP. Taiwan police were also able to find same documents on those engineers’ phone when they raided UMC’s office.

JHICC’s argument now is that these are the actions of individual engineers and that there’s no proof those actions were under the direction of UMC abs JHICC.

There are so many different versions of the story. But I’m providing the basic general agreed version.

By the way, Micron bought Rexchip and Inotera but they all build chips with Micron IP. even if you argue Recchip used to build chip with Elpida IP, well, Micron also bought Elpida so they also own their IP, too.
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I am not a lawyer but i understand that patents are very abstract things, patents usually looks alike and usually are made to tell nothing useful, when i think about IP stealing i have in my mind very concrete things like verilog files, results, simulations files, layout blueprints, cost analysis, c++ code and such. Do they have evidence of this kind of IP or just the patent thing?
 
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hvpc

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tokenanalyst said:
I am not a lawyer but i understand that patents are very abstract things, patents usually looks alike and usually are made to tell nothing useful, when i think about IP stealing i have in my mind very concrete things like verilog files, results, simulations files, layout blueprints, cost analysis, c++ code and such. Do they have evidence of this kind of IP or just the patent thing?
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They have proof of the actual IP theft. This was well covered even by the Taiwan media.

But I think it’s harder to prove these IP’s directly caused Micron the billions of loss that they claimed or that said theft was at the request of UMC/JHICC.

But regardless of the actual outcome, Micron already accomplished their purpose of keeping JHICC from fulfilling their intention to get into the DRAM space.
 
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