Chinese purchase of Su-35
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Dear MiG-29 ... sorry again to step into this discussion, but it seems that You still don't get the point:
On the one side You demand official Chinese soucres posted by the CHinese manufactors or high-ranking Chinese Military or political leaders to proof our chinarelated things. Sadly these most often don't exist, since they prefer to be quiet or calm ... and do their work. As such even if there's no official confirmation we have visual proof for so many things You still deny only due to missing official confirmation. (WS-10, J-10, J-11, and so on are simple examples)
On the other side the Russian media, Russian officials (most of all from the Russian Military and even more aerospace companies) claim things since years, propose others since years .... and most of them fail to materialise.
If only half of that would really happen what was written by Your so much liked official Russian sources, then the Russian Military would have an operational stealth fighter already since years, a MiG-31 replacememt in 2 years, an operational carrier battle Group of six carriers by 2020 and China would already operate Tu-22M and Su-35 since years .... and so on ! But NOTHING happened or I'm almost sure (again my humble opinion) will happen.
As such I ask You what sources are more reliable or trustworthy ??
Non-official Chinese ones which albeit from spotters, Bloggers and other non-officials which are a simple visual proof for our "opinions" or Your official Russian sources, which in several cases seem to be nothing more than political statememts made for the home-market. Some of them - especailly from the former MoD seem to be more from a bunch of Vodka-drunk liars than a real fact-delivering "source" !??
As such Your so often shown arrogance to turn down our arguments baked by sadly only un-official sources simply as opinions and Your habbit to tell us in the same sentence that we should learn Russian before You will discuss again, that we should show You official facts instead of opinions, that we should accept Your official sources .... and that all with nearly None of Your Facts ever becoming fact are the main reason for so many here being angry about You!
If You ask me for my opinion: It seems as if Your vacation from this forum was sadly not long enough to give You an oportunity to learn !
The indeed funny Thing behind the Su-35-story is that it might become true in the near future ... but it does not make all Russian Claims true and even more it does not justifies Your altitude here in this forum
Have a nice day,
Deino
On the one side You demand official Chinese soucres posted by the CHinese manufactors or high-ranking Chinese Military or political leaders to proof our chinarelated things. Sadly these most often don't exist, since they prefer to be quiet or calm ... and do their work. As such even if there's no official confirmation we have visual proof for so many things You still deny only due to missing official confirmation. (WS-10, J-10, J-11, and so on are simple examples)
On the other side the Russian media, Russian officials (most of all from the Russian Military and even more aerospace companies) claim things since years, propose others since years .... and most of them fail to materialise.
If only half of that would really happen what was written by Your so much liked official Russian sources, then the Russian Military would have an operational stealth fighter already since years, a MiG-31 replacememt in 2 years, an operational carrier battle Group of six carriers by 2020 and China would already operate Tu-22M and Su-35 since years .... and so on ! But NOTHING happened or I'm almost sure (again my humble opinion) will happen.
As such I ask You what sources are more reliable or trustworthy ??
Non-official Chinese ones which albeit from spotters, Bloggers and other non-officials which are a simple visual proof for our "opinions" or Your official Russian sources, which in several cases seem to be nothing more than political statememts made for the home-market. Some of them - especailly from the former MoD seem to be more from a bunch of Vodka-drunk liars than a real fact-delivering "source" !??
As such Your so often shown arrogance to turn down our arguments baked by sadly only un-official sources simply as opinions and Your habbit to tell us in the same sentence that we should learn Russian before You will discuss again, that we should show You official facts instead of opinions, that we should accept Your official sources .... and that all with nearly None of Your Facts ever becoming fact are the main reason for so many here being angry about You!
If You ask me for my opinion: It seems as if Your vacation from this forum was sadly not long enough to give You an oportunity to learn !
The indeed funny Thing behind the Su-35-story is that it might become true in the near future ... but it does not make all Russian Claims true and even more it does not justifies Your altitude here in this forum
Have a nice day,
Deino
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Look i will be honest, first do not try to win arguments but threatening people with banning, this shows very well your arguments are weak and if you want to know a care little about you banning me, since banning me won`t stop facts and this forum for me is a hobby not a work so i do not make a penny by arguing with people with little technical knowledge and a lot of pride.
Second your arguments are not very good, sorry but beyond you being a moderator you have no real argument, in fact you only try to win the argument by threatening me, which shows me if we are in another forum you won`t be able to win a single argument as i have seen you in Key Forum where basically you are not a moderator.
Third ROSTEC is an official source and the source says still negotiating which basically mean anything still is possible.
And forth i have to study math and physics so if you think you will win your arguing claiming you will ban me i will tell you i care more about my university where my grades are not based upon pride but by solving equations and studying physics
A fifth i will always prefer my freedom and my freedom to think to to let someone threat me to force their way of thinking upon me Liberty is what i love and freedom of thought is first, if you want to win my respect learn to respect others first and do not abuse of the power given to you
First of all again You misinterpret something; it was not a treat to ban You but an argument to explain why some here have Problems with You or even more why no-one takes Your Claims seroiusly anymore.
Even more that all is complyly irrelevant since I don't see this as a competition - strangely otherwise to You, and that might be YOUR Problem, but not mine, since it explains Your altitude: You really seem to be obsessed in winning by keeping that strange idea "official Russian source" = more reliable than "unofficial CHinese opinion" !
As such this it not a sign or proof for my weak arguments, it simply Shows that You can't or do not want to argue ! As such again please take this as a homework:
Why is a statement from a Russian source You posted that did not become a fact after years (examples see above) still more reliable to You than my "weak" opinion-based Argument about anything on CHinese things that are maybe not officially confirmed but can simply be seen on spotter images ??
And to admit we agre again and again turning around in arguments, but You don't seem to understand ... this derails again a tread completely off-Topic and that's a reason probably to expand Your vacation, not Your strange sources I don't take seriously.
But to admit it's boring and I would suggest You indeed You stop posting this off-Topic BS and better take Your time to learn Math and Physics ...
Deino
PS: IMO respect in such a Forum has nothing to do with the number of Posts or a competition like "my argument is better Yours" even more in the way You try to discuss but simply with the way a member here argues and what's the quality of his Posts.
As such You can surely have Your opinion if You only would admit that ist also nothing more than an opinion ... but to tell us we have unproven opinions and only You know that Facts is like leading a crusade against others. And if that will earn You some respect is a question You Need to answer Yourself. But again that's my opinion.
Even more that all is complyly irrelevant since I don't see this as a competition - strangely otherwise to You, and that might be YOUR Problem, but not mine, since it explains Your altitude: You really seem to be obsessed in winning by keeping that strange idea "official Russian source" = more reliable than "unofficial CHinese opinion" !
As such this it not a sign or proof for my weak arguments, it simply Shows that You can't or do not want to argue ! As such again please take this as a homework:
Why is a statement from a Russian source You posted that did not become a fact after years (examples see above) still more reliable to You than my "weak" opinion-based Argument about anything on CHinese things that are maybe not officially confirmed but can simply be seen on spotter images ??
And to admit we agre again and again turning around in arguments, but You don't seem to understand ... this derails again a tread completely off-Topic and that's a reason probably to expand Your vacation, not Your strange sources I don't take seriously.
But to admit it's boring and I would suggest You indeed You stop posting this off-Topic BS and better take Your time to learn Math and Physics ...
Deino
PS: IMO respect in such a Forum has nothing to do with the number of Posts or a competition like "my argument is better Yours" even more in the way You try to discuss but simply with the way a member here argues and what's the quality of his Posts.
As such You can surely have Your opinion if You only would admit that ist also nothing more than an opinion ... but to tell us we have unproven opinions and only You know that Facts is like leading a crusade against others. And if that will earn You some respect is a question You Need to answer Yourself. But again that's my opinion.
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MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Look you can say whatever, and do what ever, my posts are not off topic, and ROSTEC is not of topic, the reason you say that is simply because you have no other way to prove your points and you get annoyed by the fact that your arguments are not convincing, like the day i ask you for official sources you in Key humbly even admitted you have no real base but it was just an approximation but here you use the banning too and about competition?
No simply is you have gotten annoyed with me for personal reasons since arguing with me you never had better arguments.
You can do what ever, i will believe the Russian sources but i won`t let you step on me, trying to proof your arguments by threatening me with banning do what ever you want, but respect others means let other too their freedom in their beliefs and believe me i won`t relinquish to that, my freedom is first and this forum is not a work for me but hobby.
o.k ... if You indeed take it this way, one final answer:
I did not ban You nore did I threaten You this but since You are really that obsessed in Your opinion or even more in the superiority of Your "Facts", then show me where is the Russian carier battle Group claimed to be operational in 2016 ? Where are the Su-35 ordered in 2011, 2012 and so on ?? Where is proof that the Chinese bougth the Tu-22M production line ??? ... and there are countless other things You always Claim by Russian media, reports or interviews (all that can be found in interviews reports or so from various official Russian sources)... but the things that became reality or fact are Close to Zero. As such it is irrelevant how official a source is when in the end it only Claims false things or simply is wrong. But since You dont seem to understand that it's indeed senseless to try again to argue with You.
It is like trying to persuade anyone who argues that there is no Evolution, Darvin and all sience is wrong and all that since I have no official confirmation, since it is not written in the Bible - for them the only confirmed official source !!
Deino
I did not ban You nore did I threaten You this but since You are really that obsessed in Your opinion or even more in the superiority of Your "Facts", then show me where is the Russian carier battle Group claimed to be operational in 2016 ? Where are the Su-35 ordered in 2011, 2012 and so on ?? Where is proof that the Chinese bougth the Tu-22M production line ??? ... and there are countless other things You always Claim by Russian media, reports or interviews (all that can be found in interviews reports or so from various official Russian sources)... but the things that became reality or fact are Close to Zero. As such it is irrelevant how official a source is when in the end it only Claims false things or simply is wrong. But since You dont seem to understand that it's indeed senseless to try again to argue with You.
It is like trying to persuade anyone who argues that there is no Evolution, Darvin and all sience is wrong and all that since I have no official confirmation, since it is not written in the Bible - for them the only confirmed official source !!
Deino
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MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Look i am a civilized person. and i wil explain you
Russian sources are divided in Media and official.
Here people do not understand that
Roboronexport is an official source when a sale is made is published.
Rostec is saying negotiation still on, ROSTEC is official they are not saying the sale is done, just negotiations,
Does it means China already bought Su-35? no it does not.
it might happen it might not happen.
When people read Vedemosti or RIA Novosti or RT or Prada they are reading leaks and sometimes gossips however sometimes are facts.
Sukhoi has not declared China bought Su-35s.
Is it very difficult to see that the actual Russian sources are not affirming China bought Su-35s, but negotiations are still going on?
When you read sales of russian equipment Roboronexport is the best source.
Russian official sources never say a sale has happened unless it really happens, the media sometimes claims or exaggerates.
So if you want my opinion as a civilized person, the sale has not been materialized, the Russians are hoping next year the contract might be materialize.
Are they in negotiations? i think so otherwise Rostec or ROBORONexport would not say it.
If you want to know why i do not accept your point is because you are claiming Russian sources are not reliable.
as long as you have that attitude i won` agree.
Some are reliable and i am 100% sure Russia and China are in negotiations for Su-35.
Will they buy them i do not know.
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In regard to the Su-35 deal I agree with You and even more that the probably only reliable source in regard to Russian things is Roboronexport. As such I agree with You that this deal might indeed result in a contract ...
But exactly to RIAN and Nowosti and so on, it is funny to see how often You post things from these "sources" too and then tell us in the same way to take them as facts as if they would be from Roboronexport ??
Deino
But exactly to RIAN and Nowosti and so on, it is funny to see how often You post things from these "sources" too and then tell us in the same way to take them as facts as if they would be from Roboronexport ??
Deino
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
First i want you to think i am your friend, not competitor, in life we have to learn to express our thoughts, be humble and learn from others, i am lean on Russian sources simply because they have the other side of many deals and while i have gotten disappointed.
I like Russia any way my step mother is Russian and in my Childhood house 5 Russians live, and i had a few Russian girlfriends, maybe i like too much Russia, but i am also civilized and my parents told me to be human and respectful we can agree to disagree but if we effort we can learn to make us understood Regards Deino
since you are the all knowing and I am just an ignorant fool. Why don't you be the kind one here and enlighten me? Note that I am not against any sales here, I am looking only at hard and solid proof and so far I am seeing contradicting reports from the newspaper and your source.
So... tell me, what is happening here? The Russian newspaper is not accurate? Or what?
Oh... found another interesting news (this time from Rostec.)
This supposedly accurate source claim that China had signed a preliminary agreement with Russia for 24 Su-35 fighters in 2012. Really? What happen to that deal? When the newspaper in 2013 stated that no talks had been mentioned. So the newspaper are load of BS. I would think that if the initial agreement was already signed, wouldn't President Xi visit to Russia had at least some mentioning of this deal. Nothing at all.
Another news from Rostec
this one echoes what CCTV had mentioned before, and was denied by the Russian themselves. So... this is not accurate, so Rostec had also make a mistake this report.
So... now... here is the confusing part. Sometime it is not accurate... sometime it is accurate? and when do you actually choose to believe in it?
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