doesn't china already have the biggest fleet of flankers outside of Russia? they are making like 5 different versions of flankers themselves so why would they be thoroughly upset if production is slow right now. they weren't desperate for planes like they were two decades ago. china's current fleet of flankers, j-10's, jh-7A's and j-8's is a decent fleet for defense. i'm not saying the SU-35S is a bad plane or they shouldn't buy it but why would they want to spend those funds for an import when they're domestic programs are blooming with two stealth fighters in testing phase. there is a wing type subsonic bomber that we don't know much about then now we just got pictures of a model that looks like a high speed stealth bomber which may or may not be program in progress. point is they got plenty of better projects to spend their money on than the SU-35S which the Russian airforce hasn't even bought themselves or if they have, in tiny insignificant numbers.
Chinese purchase of Su-35
- Thread starter flyzies
- Start date
doesn't china already have the biggest fleet of flankers outside of Russia? they are making like 5 different versions of flankers themselves so why would they be thoroughly upset if production is slow right now. they weren't desperate for planes like they were two decades ago. china's current fleet of flankers, j-10's, jh-7A's and j-8's is a decent fleet for defense. i'm not saying the SU-35S is a bad plane or they shouldn't buy it but why would they want to spend those funds for an import when they're domestic programs are blooming with two stealth fighters in testing phase. there is a wing type subsonic bomber that we don't know much about then now we just got pictures of a model that looks like a high speed stealth bomber which may or may not be program in progress. point is they got plenty of better projects to spend their money on than the SU-35S which the Russian airforce hasn't even bought themselves or if they have, in tiny insignificant numbers.
AeroEngineer
Junior Member
What you said is total bullcrap !!!
Chinese do NOT want Su-35S at ALL !!!! It is totally useless for China, there are already oveer 180 J-11B in PLAAF, and the only reason why this deal might happen is 117S !!
Why would China want Su-35S when J-20 and J-31 can R@PE Su-35S at any moment ?? Tell me !!
The Chinese are even reluctant to buy 24 Su-35S let alone 48 !!
If China wants 48 Su-35 which is the initial deal proposed by the russians at 5 billion USD, then Chinese would have signed it two years ago in 2011!!
Remember it is the Russians who are so desperate to sell their fighter, and after China came out last year and DENY the 48 Su-35 deal they step down to 24 at just 1.5 billion USD.
Tell me, how we "inferior" Chinese want your Su-35 "god" fighter ?
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AeroEngineer
Junior Member
Su-35 is totally useless for China because:
1. It can not fire Chinese munition therefore it need to use Russian ones and are usually craps like R-77E, and other missiles that does not even work.
2. It lack Chinese avonics which means it can not get AWAC support from KJ-2000 or KJ-200, you basically have Su-35 flying in the skys like fools without any idea what is around them and they will be TARGETs for F-22A !
3. It has the same role as J-11B.
4. It is far far inferior to J-20, even J-31. J-20 even with WS-10A engine can anual R@PE Su-35 with 117S TVC engine in a fight !
5. It will need new support equibments and will be a problem for logistic.
The only reason this purchase might happen is the 117S engine.
The russians realized that even with the 117S engine, it is not enough to attract the Chinese, so they add other stuffs like the S-400, and Lada SSK as a bundal sale in a hope to finially secure this deal !
24 is the MOST China will buy, not a single more. You can dream about your 48. You silly one!
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vesicles
Colonel
I have said this a million times, and I will say it again. What China wants is NOT simply a few planes. The thinking that China will buy Su-35 because it currently still lacks certain capabilities is very very shortsighted. China wants to develop its own indigenous advanced fighter programs. To do that, China will have to go through the growing pain. Yes, this will slow down things a little, but this is not only necessary but essential for the long run. Unlike India that is satisfied with what they can have now, China is looking 50 years, 100 years ahead and plans to lead the world in weapons development in the future. Simply blindly buying whatever they want will NOT get them there. They have to become independent. And they know that and what they have done show that clearly. They have stopped buying weapons in significant amount since 2004. Although back in 2004, China's own weapons programs were still lagging significantly, they felt that they had learned enough to go on their own. And they knew that they would suffer some serious set-backs and things wouldn't go as smoothly as they would if they simply bought things and had all the help they could get. However, they knew it was absolutely essential that they had to become independent to one day fulfill their goals.
So enough of this buying Su-35 stuff!
thunderchief
Senior Member
Why wouldn't they ? You have French and Israeli avionics as well some indigenous systems on Indian Migs and Suhois . It is all just a question of time and money , and China as a customer could choose what ever it needs .
SinoSoldier
Colonel
Superior to anything currently ... except for the J-11B, J-10B, J-15, and the newly unveiled J-16. People don't realize that without the avionics or the internal technologies which the Chinese are wanting to replace with their own, the Su-35 would simply be another airframe with RAM and composites that are already in Chinese service. The entire point of the Su-35 would be to upgrade its avionics, engines, airframe, FBW, weapons, and versatility, which already has been completed by China. In fact the J-11B, J-15, and J-16 possess upgrade schemes that are almost parallel to that of the Su-35. This is also leaving aside the fact that the J-11/15/16 are rumored to possess a radar whose company papers claim superior specifications than the irbis e.
... Give it a rest...
Su-35 have much more powerful engines with TVC (whatever that is worth), a ridiculously powerful PESA (despite the much touted AESAs for J-15/11B/16, we haven't got anything yet) and access to a variety of potent Russian munitions which chinese flankers have yet to be integrated with (think high off bore sight SRAAM, ground attack munitions).
By no means is Su-35 "THAT" much superior to SACs flankers, and yes Su-35 has a different role to 11B, 15, 16 so comparisons aren't fully valid. But Franco is right and if PLAAF did acquire Su-35 it will be the most potent fighter in their inventory, if only by a small margin due to its engines, radar (until Chinese flankers get their AESAs) and weapon suite (until Chinese flankers get PL-10 , PGM, ARMs loaded on)
just compare the cockpit of Su-35 to J11B
SinoSoldier
Colonel
I agree that the Su-35 is indeed kinematically superior to the J-11B, J-15, and J-16, but electronics are a different story. There is no confirmation that the J-11B has AESA, but recent rumors, from the exhibition plaque to the company paper, claim so. The J-15 and J-16 also hints at a new AESA from the color of its randome as well as specifications and rumors that parallel nicely with each other. A recently unveiled manual on a Chinese airborne radar already shows a massive advantage over the Su-35 (450 km for 1 m^2, 280 for 0.4 m^2, 250 km for 0.1 m^2 tracking). If the SU-35 entered service now, yes, it will be superior to anything the PLAAF has, but by the time such a plane is delivered, the comparable J-15 and J-16 and J-10B would have been deployed.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Well , currently China doesn't have engine comparable to 117S , nor radar with average and peak power comparable to Irbis-E . Things could change in couple of years , but I doubt these new engines and radars would end up in J-11 series . You need time to transit from design to prototype , then to initial production and finally to full scale production .And when that happens I expect J-20 and J-31 to be first recipients of new technologies , not 4th gen fighters like J-11 and J-10.
In the meantime , Su-35 could serve nicely , countering potential F-35 sales in the region .
@sinosoldier
Irbis-E isn't a radar to dismiss despite being "merely" PESA, and we have no evidence to suggest any SAC flankers are equipped with said AESAs as of yet, so franco's statement stands.
Even if SACs flankers are equipped with AESAs, that doesn't change the fact that they're the equivalent of an F-15C being refitted with APG 63v3 to reach parity or slight superiority with Su-35s irbis. Su-35 is still kinematic ally superior, equipped with rear facing radar, and currently, a greater weapons suite.
Irbis-E isn't a radar to dismiss despite being "merely" PESA, and we have no evidence to suggest any SAC flankers are equipped with said AESAs as of yet, so franco's statement stands.
Even if SACs flankers are equipped with AESAs, that doesn't change the fact that they're the equivalent of an F-15C being refitted with APG 63v3 to reach parity or slight superiority with Su-35s irbis. Su-35 is still kinematic ally superior, equipped with rear facing radar, and currently, a greater weapons suite.