Chinese purchase of Su-35

kwaigonegin said:

Unless ....there is also significant knowledge transfer from Russian scientists as part of the 117S deal ..

doubt it but stranger things have happend.

Click to expand...

That would be highly unlikly to the point of impossiblility. Even when you disregard China's ability, knowledge associated with building advanced jet engines is as closely guarded as knowledge on building nuclear weapons. There is no chance Russia would reveal any such knowledge to China.

What is hindering China in jet engines is not knowledge, but material science like you have pointed out earlier. On this front, China has achieved many breakthroughs already. Additionally, China has already completed the core to WS-15 more than half a decade ago. The core being the high pressure and high temperature section is the most complicated part of the engine. All these show is that China already has the know how in building an advanced jet engine with no need to rely on others on such knowledge.

Another thing I should point out is the fact that the WS-15 is supposed to be an equivilent to the F-119 engine. The 117S is just a heavily modified version of the AL-31 engine. On paper, the WS-15 is half a generation ahead. With China working on a more advanced project, the claim that China needs lesser knowledge sounds ridiculous.

It's absurd for PLA to buy Su-35 at this stage, instead of 5 years earlier. Bundling the deal with a failed submarine program called Lada is ludicrous. I guess state media reports also make mistakes sometimes.

Engineer said:

That would be highly unlikly to the point of impossiblility. Even when you disregard China's ability, knowledge associated with building advanced jet engines is as closely guarded as knowledge on building nuclear weapons. There is no chance Russia would reveal any such knowledge to China.

What is hindering China in jet engines is not knowledge, but material science like you have pointed out earlier. On this front, China has achieved many breakthroughs already. Additionally, China has already completed the core to WS-15 more than half a decade ago. The core being the high pressure and high temperature section is the most complicated part of the engine. All these show is that China already has the know how in building an advanced jet engine with no need to rely on others on such knowledge.

Another thing I should point out is the fact that the WS-15 is supposed to be an equivilent to the F-119 engine. The 117S is just a heavily modified version of the AL-31 engine. On paper, the WS-15 is half a generation ahead. With China working on a more advanced project, the claim that China needs lesser knowledge sounds ridiculous.

Click to expand...

One thought Engineer (or indeed a question) why do most countries and Corporations show an interest in China ?

I also wonder if people are getting too hung up on this particular issue and should instead be looking at the bigger picture of what exactly Xi and Putin meant by deepening and widening their broad strategic alliance. I don't think Xi went to Moscow just to buy rabbits.

SampanViking said:

One thought Engineer (or indeed a question) why do most countries and Corporations show an interest in China ?

I also wonder if people are getting too hung up on this particular issue and should instead be looking at the bigger picture of what exactly Xi and Putin meant by deepening and widening their broad strategic alliance. I don't think Xi went to Moscow just to buy rabbits.

Click to expand...

He did!

Engineer said:

Additionally, China has already completed the core to WS-15 more than half a decade ago. The core being the high pressure and high temperature section is the most complicated part of the engine.

Click to expand...

Where did you get the information that WS-15´s core has been completed years ago? do you have a source for it?

Another day, another blank on Su35 sales to China.

By this point, all but the most hardcore of Russian fanboys seem to have realised that the latest batch of rumours to spark this latest flurry of actively is just so much hot air, like all the rumours before it. As such, is there any point in the continued existence of this thread? Because all that seems to be said now is a rehash, in one form or another, of things already said many times before.

kroko said:

Where did you get the information that WS-15´s core has been completed years ago? do you have a source for it?

Click to expand...

Tags: 15 tons thrust; China; J-20; WS-15; turbofan engine;
From , the caption reads:

This Chinese internet source chart shows the WS-15 engine core, upper right, and WS-13 which is based on Russian Klimov RD-33 turbofan technology.

Click to expand...

says this:

The core engine for the WS-15 engine was first tested in April 2005.

Click to expand...

There is also a picture of a ceremony in China in which a banner says delivery of WS-15 core.

Ah, that picture. Made its rounds back in 2009. But before the appearance of J-20, people have not paid much attention about it.

luhai said:

Ah, that picture. Made its rounds back in 2009. But before the appearance of J-20, people have not paid much attention about it.
View attachment 7741

Click to expand...

It appears around 2006

well, this unpopular speculation is in the news, again.







i've listed these articles chronologically (as far as i can tell), but i think that particular details persented in the second and third are the most interesting. from the second, the detail that "special demonstration flights were performed for the Chinese guests on Wednesday', and from the third, the detail that, "China has yet to receive permission to produce its own version of the fighter", are both interesting, to me.

i find the detail of the special demonstration flights interesting in that it raises the question, with Bourget only weeks away, why the hurry and exclusivity? i find the detail of china not yet receiving permission to produce its own version interesting as my interpretation is that this would be the ideal arrangement for both parties.

in my mind, china, having proven its capabilities in building, producing, and modifying, the flanker frame - though not necessarily with russia's blessings, is ideally positioned to participate in a licensed production of the su-35. such an arrangement could also provide russia with funds much needed to maximize efficiency of their own su-35 production run. through a degree of integration, they could achieve an economy of scale in su-35 production that would give carlo kopp nightmares.

now, that's my thinking!

anyone else, here, thinking that chinese participation in the su-35 program just might be a rational option?