No one here knows for sure if china is ahead of russia in avionics. Both have AESA radars.
And what are your souces that the WS-15 core is out since 2005. Has the engine been flight tested
Chinese purchase of Su-35
- Thread starter flyzies
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No one here knows for sure if china is ahead of russia in avionics. Both have AESA radars.
And what are your souces that the WS-15 core is out since 2005. Has the engine been flight tested
vesicles
Colonel
Hmmm, who says ignoring other countries? Did I ever say China should close its doors and shut everyone out. I spent 2 posts detailing how China AND Russia would enjoin mutual benefit if they collaborate in the civilian sector. It will benefit both nations economically and send goodwill to their neighbors. Isn't that better than buying weapons and making everyone nervous?
Things like 24 Su-35's are not stakes in any form. That's like a grain of salt compared to mountains of salt that these nations routinely deal with. Russia will not even make it into consideration when making their decisions. Russia has major arms deals with India, which makes China very uncomfortable. Has Russia decided to back off those deals simply because China doesn't like it? The US and China do major major business together. Many multinational companies (if not almost all big companies) in the US invest heavily in China. I would say the US has huge stakes in China. China is THE biggest debtor of the US. I would say the US has huge stakes in China? Did the US put this into consideration when selling weapons to Taiwan? Did the US consider any of its "stakes" when challenging China whenever and wherever possible? And you think a few fighter jets can sway how Russia would behave? That's simply ridiculous. What decides how Russia would behave is its OWN interests. Buying and selling weapons are NOT interests and have absolutely nothing to do with its political decisions. The US sold weapons to both Allies and Germany at the beginning of the WWII. Did that affect how the US saw its own alliance? The Soviets sold weapons and helped China with all kinds of technological stuff in the 50's and 60's. Did that affect how the Soviets and China made their political decisions?
Let's say ASSUMING China is desperately trying to win a favor from the Russians, CHINA CAN DO IT USING CIVILIAN INVESTMENT. Military cooperation is not the only thing. Frankly, it is the last thing average Russians would care about since all this military stuff is so far away from their everyday life. It is the civilian investment that will impact average Russians and they will mostly likely appreciate more. You keep sounding like buying a few Su-35s will save the world. Wake up and smell the roses, my man. It will NOT!!! China IS playing the geopolitical game and has been playing it for the past 3 decades. And China has been playing a SUCCESSFUL geopolitical game with the US and other major powers WITHOUT EVER INVOLVING MILITARY TECHNOLOGY. Why would China do anything different with the Russians? China has not made any major weapons deals with Russia for a decade. Has that affect the relationship with Russia during this period?
So let me make it absolutely clear. China can tighten the bond with Russia by investing in civilian sectors, which can go up to trillions annually. These investments will benefit both nations equally. Compared to this, a few billion $$$ of Su-35 will not win any goodwill from the Russians. And China does not have to lose something to gain something else. There are plenty of win-win situations than buying a few Su-35.
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I am sure, China's Su-35S in the future, just to prevent the Su-30MKI
Both Su-35S and Su-30MKI aircraft are the super-maneuverability, with technological security RCS almost similar (Su-30MKI use the opto-electronic system of Europe, only to attack the land), I think we will have duel between Su-30MKI and the Su-35S (export version for China)
Both Su-35S and Su-30MKI aircraft are the super-maneuverability, with technological security RCS almost similar (Su-30MKI use the opto-electronic system of Europe, only to attack the land), I think we will have duel between Su-30MKI and the Su-35S (export version for China)
vesicles
Colonel
I said in my early post that Russia has nothing that China wants. I was responding to your insistence that China has to make sacrifices in order to form good relationship with Russia. China is not held hostage by the Russians on anything, be it oil, etc... I have absolutely no doubt that both nations will benefit immensely when they collaborate. However, any collaboration will have to benefit both nations equally. That's why I said China holds all the cards. China does not have to bend over to meet the needs of the Russians. Both nations can come to the middle and meet each other on an equal footing. there is absolutely no need for China to sacrifice billions of $$$ just to win goodwill from the Russians. Again, the old mentality that China is somehow weaker and has to sacrifice its own interests to win favors from the big brother should be abandoned. No one has to sacrifice. There are plenty of win-win situations.
Geographer
Junior Member
So, is the purchase real or not?
Curious George
New Member
Firstly please try to keep it civil, and secondly please stop trying to put words in my mouth, I never even hinted that an Su-35 deal would somehow save the world, I only said that if it turns out to be true then I can see the motivations for it (ie China taking a not very favorable to itself deal to make Putin/Russia look good to his domestic audience so he can better sell future China-Russia cooperation to his people). I can see the logic of China taking a "bad deal" now so that in the future if China gets a more favorable deal than Russia, Putin can just tell any objectors on his end that in the last deal with China it was China that had the unfavorable deal etc.
Also like you said, China hasn't had a major deal with Russia for a decade, so maybe this supposed Su35 deal is the only way to get the ball rolling for future sales of stuff that China does actually want. It wouldn't be the first time someone has bought something they don't want simply to gain access to what they do want (in this case its probably the submarines that are the real target of the deal, as there is co-production involved, with 2 Subs apparently being built in Russia and 2 in China)
Yep, because Russia totally has the capability to develop and manufacture a matured advanced AEGIS-like system. In fact, Russia's domestic microprocessor industry has a quantum leap over China's and is many times the size of China's token microchip industry. -sarcasm-
Engineer
Major
Considering the Russians have trouble getting the Lada working and that the Yuan submarines are working perfectly for China, your theory that China wants Lada submarines is even more ridiculous than the theory on the Su-35 deal.
China does not operate a charity, and that is the precise reason that China hasn't have a major deal with Russia for a decade. In other words, China isn't going to spend money on useless items, or more money than they worth on useful items, just to make Putin look good to his domestic audience.
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
There were a recent leakage regarding the specifications of the AESA radars on the J-11B, J-15, and J-15. It is in L-band, has a range of 285 km against a 0.4 m^2 target, and a 450 km range against a 1 m^2 target. That corresponds to earlier rumors about the J-11B radar being 450 km in range, and it certainly will outperform the Irbis-E.
Engineer
Major
Actually, showering Russia with money serves no benefit while squandering money locally does. In the latter case, the money goes back and boost the economy to Chinese economy.
By the time the Russians have production slots freed up to start production for export, the J-20 would be in service already.If the Russians can start deliver Su-35s in the next a couple of years, then at least these aircraft can add to the numbers. Heck, might well put them near where the Su-30Mkk/MK2 are stationed, so they could share the same data-link, along with those Sovremenny-class destroyers from the East sea fleet, would have a nice-looking Red Army on the eastern coast! Then invite Russians for an joint-exercise with all Russian gears... should be fun.