No. China is a equal big power to Russia. Nobody can blackmail with china with technology. The money will rather well spent on the development of domestic engine. All is just waiting time. Plus we are not even getting top end AL-41 engine. I strongly believe WS-15 engine is right on track,no need for 117S. So far no concrete proof of the deal did happened. China defense department and russiaarm export agency has no news yet. The airframe and system will be totally useless to us. It will be a very bad deal. And I believe ministry of defense of china will not that foolish to waste tax payer money.
Chinese purchase of Su-35
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No. China is a equal big power to Russia. Nobody can blackmail with china with technology. The money will rather well spent on the development of domestic engine. All is just waiting time. Plus we are not even getting top end AL-41 engine. I strongly believe WS-15 engine is right on track,no need for 117S. So far no concrete proof of the deal did happened. China defense department and russiaarm export agency has no news yet. The airframe and system will be totally useless to us. It will be a very bad deal. And I believe ministry of defense of china will not that foolish to waste tax payer money.
Do we know the current status of WS10A other than a few pictures here and there on a protorype J10b, J11b, or J15?
I heard rumors of J10b still be produced using AL31FN. I am not so sure WS10A mass production issue has been solved.
Also the radar installed on J10b, do we know for sure it's AESA or PESA?
Having real SU35 on hand to go against J20 will give great reference point whether Chinese stealth fighters for sure can beat top notched 3 generation fighters. This way, things on J20 can be tweaked or modified to defeat the SU35 decisively.
If that happened, then J20 surely can defeat rafael, eurofighters, silent eagles, upgraded F18..etc.
I heard rumors of J10b still be produced using AL31FN. I am not so sure WS10A mass production issue has been solved.
Also the radar installed on J10b, do we know for sure it's AESA or PESA?
Having real SU35 on hand to go against J20 will give great reference point whether Chinese stealth fighters for sure can beat top notched 3 generation fighters. This way, things on J20 can be tweaked or modified to defeat the SU35 decisively.
If that happened, then J20 surely can defeat rafael, eurofighters, silent eagles, upgraded F18..etc.
They are able to produce enough engines for all new batch j-11Bs. The production issue has been solved, that is to say, they can reliably produce the engine repeatedly on a production line. Now it's a supply and demand issue, if J-10B was intending to use WS-10As in the final version.
Nope. But I think we would place money on active.
Curious George
New Member
Looking at it through a microscope its probably a bad deal, but looking at the big picture, it brings Russia closer to China. Like it or not China needs allies, and if China doesn't try to bring Russia closer to itself Russia will go somewhere else for defense industry cooperation (probably closer to India as it is Russia's only their other real choice).
Like I said before, it's 956EM deal. Not good in hardware terms, but with tech transfers and geopolitical terms slightly better. However, Shengyang isn't gonna be happy, These are the money that could have go to them. (Though on the other hand, they might get alittle boost with tech transfers.)
Engineer
Major
It's actually nothing like the 956EM deal. Back then, the 956EM actually provided something that China doesn't have. Right now, the Su-35 doesn't contain anything that is valuable to China. Avionics wise, China is ahead of Russia, especially when you consider what have been installed on the J-20. Engines wise, WS-15 surpasses the 117S on paper and the core was already out in 2005. Being able to produce the core already signifies China has mastered the key technologies to a high performance engine.
Curious George
New Member
Just because China can make things themeselves doesn't mean they can't buy some stuff from Russia, especially if the true aim is to foster future China-Russia cooperation. Also, with China's track record of reverse engineering Russian technology, you can't be surprised that Russia isn't offering its best stuff to China right away. Maybe in a few years when trust is formed (ie no recently sold Russian tech is reverse engineered), Russia will be willing to offer China its best stuff and maybe even do a few joint projects together with China (such as Plasma Stealth technology).
vesicles
Colonel
Fostering future China-Russia cooperation is not enough reason to buy Su-35. China can sign civilian deals and actually foster economic development in both nations. In fact, that's exactly what China has been doing. Buying fighter jets brings along the unnecessary baggage of alarming their neighbors. That's something China does not want. While signing civilian deals can benefit both nations, buying Su-35 won't benefit China a bit if Su-35 does not have anything that China wants. That's billions of $$$ wasted, compared to unknown amount of $$$ that can be potentially earned by China if it was some civilian deals, like farming bunnies.
Then there is the issue of reverse engineering. 30 years ago, China had no choice but to do it because it fell behind too much. It no longer does it as you claim because China does not need to do it any more. China's science and technological development has matured enough. In many areas, China has surpassed Russia. In other areas where China still falls behind a little bit, China now has the confidence to hammer it out on its own. That's why China stopped importing Russian weapons back in 2004. As I detailed in an early post, China's goal is not simply to have some weapons, but to develop its own weapons development programs. To do that, China has to go through the growing pains on its own. China knows this and that's why it stopped importing almost a decade ago. So simply because China might lack some knowledge of some systems is not enough reason for China to buy Su-35.
You sound like Russia would be doing China a huge favor by inviting China to join some projects. "Oh, if you are nice, I'll give you a few candy..." No, China is no longer the little brother. Russia invited China to join the PAK FA-50 program and China declined. The role has been reversed. Now, it is Russia that begs to work with China. It begs China to buy its weapons and to do business with China. China is the one who holds all the cards now. So this kind of "I'll give you a hand if you behave" thinking no longer applies. It didn't work in the 60's when China had no problem cutting ties with the Soviets. That was a time when China actually needed a lot of help from the Soviets. It won't work now or in the future.
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Well said. Project Y-20 is exactly proves this point. China was hold ransom by Russian over 38 IL-76 and IL-78 due to demand of price hike by Russian. Agreement signed and nobody point a gun at Russian head and demanded to sign under those terms. Any problem Gog up, its entirely Russian side to solve it.
Talk break down and Y-20 is born. If Su-35 deal goes through. China will be taking a step back and not advancing.
China's best stuff is better than anything Russia is willing to sell. Russia sure as hell isn't going to start selling nuclear submarine technology or S-400s to China, they're strategic assets and no matter how desperate you are for money, strategic assets must never be given away. If China's goal is to foster better relationships, they don't have to buy something they don't need for the opportunity to buy other products they don't need. That's just like saying China is willing to cut off a finger for the privilege of cutting off a leg. Even if China becomes Russia's client state, Russia would still be unwilling to sell to China what China really wants; strategic assets. Joint projects with Russia is usually just foreign cash and Russian second-tier tech. In this case, China has better tech and more cash, why would you even BOTHER to consider joint projects with Russia? The same could not be said for India though, and it seems they're more interested in products rather than production line; more consumer goods rather than capital goods. Short term gain, long term pain.