Chinese purchase of Su-35

Bltizo said:

How would J-15 or J-16 have been a temporary solution for J-11B?

I think it's clear now that J-11B was never meant to have any multirole capability, and in the PLAAF, they were to old Su-27SKs and J-11As what F-15Cs were to F-15As in the USAF.

J-11B regiments are all pure J-11B I believe. Some SK regiments have J-11BS as a necessity, and I expect many older flanker regiments to convert to J-11B (soon to be out of production imho), J-16 or J-20.
Old russian stocks would be rerouted to the Su-35 regiment (if it turns out to be real), and regiments with new indigenous planes will have brand spanking new PL-12s to play with. Shouldn't be much of a logistics headache, methinks.

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The J-11B would do fine, assuming that they stick to the BVR-type warfare for the planes, if it serves alongside the J-15 or J-16. It's easy to forget the fact that the Su-35, like the J-15 and J-16, is also a multirole aircraft, which makes them logistically unsuitable to serve alongside the J-11B which it was supposed to "emulate".

If true, this purchase is more likely to placate the Russians. They have for years complained that the economic relationship is unbalanced. Most of what russia is selling are raw materials like oil. the purchase will also deepen the political and military ties of both sides. So political reasons more than anything else.

SinoSoldier said:

The J-11B would do fine, assuming that they stick to the BVR-type warfare for the planes, if it serves alongside the J-15 or J-16.

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I do not quite understand -- J-11B would do fine for what?
Why must it be relegated to BVR combat when in support of J-15 or J-16?
Although clearly J-15 should be discounted from this discussion due to its carrier based nature. My reference to it before was more to state how it will be one of the few truly multirole fighters in the PLA's inventory on a high performance airframe.

It's easy to forget the fact that the Su-35, like the J-15 and J-16, is also a multirole aircraft, which makes them logistically unsuitable to serve alongside the J-11B which it was supposed to "emulate".

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The 24 Su-35s would serve in their own regiment, not alongside J-11Bs, so its unsuitability is irrelevant.

But that does bring up an interesting point -- I wonder whether old J-11A and SK regiments would eventually be replaced with J-16 once J-11B production withers away. Obviously moving from a single role air superiority fighter to a multirole plane with an emphasis for strike will be a departure.




The Su-35 is truly an ambitious aircraft. If the USAF decided to build a modernized F-15C with strike eagle ground attack capability and thrust vectoring you'd get a comparable aircraft. Having a single pilot operate all that will be a challenge.

getready said:

If true, this purchase is more likely to placate the Russians. They have for years complained that the economic relationship is unbalanced. Most of what russia is selling are raw materials like oil. the purchase will also deepen the political and military ties of both sides. So political reasons more than anything else.

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They could have buy more engines, more mi-17 helo or even IL-476? Why Su-35 especially it is totally not compatible with home grown weapon and create a massive logistic nightmare. CHina MOD shall come out to clarify this news. They even bother to respond regarding the news of claiming china as fifth largest arm exporter and not this new? What are they thinking?

Bltizo said:

I do not quite understand -- J-11B would do fine for what?
Why must it be relegated to BVR combat when in support of J-15 or J-16?
Although clearly J-15 should be discounted from this discussion due to its carrier based nature. My reference to it before was more to state how it will be one of the few truly multirole fighters in the PLA's inventory on a high performance airframe.



The 24 Su-35s would serve in their own regiment, not alongside J-11Bs, so its unsuitability is irrelevant.

But that does bring up an interesting point -- I wonder whether old J-11A and SK regiments would eventually be replaced with J-16 once J-11B production withers away. Obviously moving from a single role air superiority fighter to a multirole plane with an emphasis for strike will be a departure.




The Su-35 is truly an ambitious aircraft. If the USAF decided to build a modernized F-15C with strike eagle ground attack capability and thrust vectoring you'd get a comparable aircraft. Having a single pilot operate all that will be a challenge.

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If the Su-35 has no problem integrating itself into the Air Force alongside the J-11Bs, then neither should the J-15 and J-16. Fundamentally I do not see a difference between the J-15/J-16 and Su-35 other than one being twin seater, the Chinese Flankers being equipped with AESA radar, and the lack of a TVC engine on the J-15/16. And since the whole deal was due to a shortage in J-11B, then the Air Force should have at least realized that the Su-35 must be able to link and be compatible with the J-11B's system.

Lion said:

They could have buy more engines, more mi-17 helo or even IL-476? Why Su-35 especially it is totally not compatible with home grown weapon and create a massive logistic nightmare. CHina MOD shall come out to clarify this news. They even bother to respond regarding the news of claiming china as fifth largest arm exporter and not this new? What are they thinking?

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IMO simply since it gives access to the 117S powerplant which - at least IMO - I see as a better suited interim engine than to current AL-31FN. IMO the Su-35 is really more a politically motivated order to cover up the engine purchase. As such more Mi-171 are not necessary and the Il-476 is substituted by the Y-20 ...

These reports are just repeating the same news, citing Peoples's Daily as the source of the news but when I look through the PD website, I found no reports on anything about it. Same with these Chinaview/Xinhua website where I only got this news.



RUSSIA-MOSCOW-CHANG WANQUAN-SERGEI SHOIGU-MEETING
Chinese State Councilor Chang Wanquan (L), who is also the Defense Minister of China, meets with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu in Moscow, capital of Russia, March 24, 2013. (Xinhua/Jiang Kehong)


MOSCOW, March 24 (Xinhua) -- Top Chinese and Russian military officials met here on Sunday, with both sides expressing the hope to further strengthen defense cooperation.

During a meeting with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Chang Wanquan, Chinese State Councilor and Defense Minister, said that bilateral defense cooperation is a key part of China-Russia relations.

Through joint efforts, wide-ranging and multi-layer defense cooperation has become a pivot of the China-Russia comprehensive strategic partnership, Chang noted.

Currently, both sides should work hard to implement the consensus reached by leaders of the two countries, and strengthen military-to-military exchanges and cooperation, said the Chinese minister.

China is ready to work with Russia to tap the potentials and expand the scope of bilateral defense cooperation, so as to lift it to a new level, Chang said.

He cited several key areas in the promotion of pragmatic cooperation between the two armed forces, including high-level contact, strategic negotiation, joint exercise and personnel exchange.

Chang also pointed out that the just-concluded state visit to Russia by Chinese President Xi Jinping has injected new impetus into the two countries' strategic partnership.

"Given the complex international scenario today, China-Russia strategic cooperation and coordination will not only benefit the two peoples, but also help promote world peace and stability," he observed.

Shoigu, for his part, hailed the "unprecedented high level" of the Russia-China strategic partnership. The consensus reached by the top leaders has shown the direction of future development of bilateral ties, he noted.

Russia attaches great importance to mutually beneficial cooperation with China, and is satisfied with the fruitful military exchanges between the two sides, the minister said.

Russia is willing to strengthen coordination with China and further push forward defense cooperation between the two countries, he added.

This is amazing, I see Chinese websites reporting this 'news' quoting an interview on CCTV. I was watching the interview yesterday, it was just an invited analyst talking about Xi's visit, talking about Sino-Russia relations & quoted Russian reports of Su35 deal.
It seems this has somehow become an official confirmation.

Xinhui and MOD PRC shall come out and clarify the situation.

Unless we see an Su-35 flying in China in PLAAF colours, nobody can be really sure.

Yes, that means waiting for a few months or years ... or decades .. or eternity (in case, there is no such deal).

But without patience there is no answer.

This discussion about "yes, there is deal" or "no, there isn't" is meaningless.